Thursday, July 03, 2008

Special Protections

A new Colorado law, SB 200, would censorship any sort of discriminatory communications against sexual orientations.

Read full story HERE.
The end of Freedom of Religion or not?

25 Comments:

Anonymous Anonymous said...

What a load of crap Scia. Religion already gets so many special advantages and protections it’s unbelievable. There are things that only the “faithful” get to do which would be a crime for the rest of us. Religions have gotten so many special advantages over the years and now when we start giving some to other groups religion wants to cry about it.

SUCK IT UP!!

Ken Weaver

8:05 PM, July 03, 2008  
Anonymous omd said...

Ken, name the special advantages of our culture that only the faithful receive.

Remember though, our system of government guarantees the right to assembly, the right to speak freely and the right to worship.

Laws are being passed that would curb or end those rights for ALL of us.

11:11 AM, July 06, 2008  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Wrong wrong wrong, more scare tactics to justify descrimination.

Until churches pay their share in taxes, they should stop crying about "special" anything.

Ken's right. "SUCK IT UP"

11:58 AM, July 06, 2008  
Blogger John Hosty-Grinnell said...

If the church followed Christ's commands all would be well today. They could have easily taken the stand that, "Well, we don't agree with homosexuality, but we are also told not to judge one another, so let's just put the issue aside and concentrate of more important matters."

If they accepted GLBT people they get us coming to their services and leaving our money. It would lead to peace, and we could all expend our energies spent here on something else worth while.

1:11 PM, July 06, 2008  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

“Ken, name the special advantages of our culture that only the faithful receive.”

During prohibition churches that perform the sacrament were able to have wine for those ceremonies. If a regular citizen were to have wine it was a crime. Even today we see that same kind of tolerance for the religious minded. Some groups use peyote for their religious ceremonies, other religious groups use different hallucinogens to “enhance” their worshiping ability to appease their god or to be able to “converse” with god. I guess if I want to smoke some pot I should just start worshiping something like my big toe and tell the government that the only way to appease my supernatural big toe is to toke up!

Bongs at the ready everyone!!

Ken Weaver

8:52 PM, July 06, 2008  
Anonymous omd said...

LOL - You are out there Ken. What are you smokin?

Stick to our culture to of today,please.

9:20 PM, July 07, 2008  
Anonymous omd said...

John, once again you are asking people to be accepting or affirming of a behavior considered illicit. And this is why I wish the homosexual community would just admit that they want their behavior protected and affirmed by law.

9:26 PM, July 07, 2008  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

“Stick to our culture to of today,please.”

Except for prohibition I did.

Ken Weaver

10:05 PM, July 07, 2008  
Blogger John Hosty-Grinnell said...

No, on the contrary, I don't want your approval. I simply want the protections promised me that you cannot spin your religious beliefs into laws that then oppress my freedoms.

This is one of the things promised to all citizens by the Bill of Rights.

10:54 AM, July 08, 2008  
Blogger SCIA said...

John,

You said:

"If the church followed Christ's commands all would be well today."

Yes, John, that is correct,and this includes Christ's teaching on the abomination of homosexual sin.

Christ did teach us to not judge others and live with eachother peacfully, but where did he say I accept homosexual sin and wish to not help those who are engaging in this dangerous lifestyle?

8:22 PM, July 08, 2008  
OpenID dmurphy98 said...

Yes, do tell! Please, please, please!

What was Jesus' teaching on homosexuality. In which Gospel will I find it? Please point me to it.

Oh, wait. Jesus didn't say anything about it, did he? Hmmm. Tough one.

9:28 AM, July 09, 2008  
Blogger John Hosty-Grinnell said...

Whether or not you think homosexuality is a sin has no impact on my life as far as laws are concerned. Our Bill of Rights guarantees we have freedom fro laws made from people's beliefs.

I'm sorry your mind is so poisoned with hate that you can't see the wisdom in that policy. As a member of MassResistance I should expect as much.

9:57 AM, July 09, 2008  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Oh, and Leviticus also says eating shelfish is an abomination. Does that mean that I am going to Hell for my latest romp at the buffet at Red Lobster?

What if I eat shelfish while engaging in homosexual acts? Oh my, it's a slippery slope.

11:41 AM, July 09, 2008  
Blogger John Hosty-Grinnell said...

This is nearly a fruitless effort. We are dealing with people who hunted through the Bible maticulously in order to find support for their fears. They feel not only entitled, they feel like this is some sort of calling.

You can point out the hypocracy (mispelled as a referrence to Theocracy) of not maintaining Kosher, but you can't shake some people out of their ignorance.

The only thing we can do that helps is to be patient with them to the point of naseum and hope we get through to as many people as possible.

The truth is on our side, all we have to do is continue to promote it while disproving their demonizations.

1:24 PM, July 09, 2008  
Anonymous omd said...

What is obvious is that we have different worldviews.
Some have a Christian world view and others a secular world view. That is why we are butting heads.

I'm afraid that's not going to change unless those with a secular view heed the urgings of the Holy Spirit to acknowledge Jesus or that those who have a Christian view abandon their belief in Jesus.

I am going to address the premise that Jesus said nothing about homosexuality, again.

If you believe that Bible is the word of God, given to mankind, and that Jesus is the Word of God and God the Father, God the Son [Jesus] and God the Holy Spirit are, in fact, the same person, thus One, Then the Bible is authored by Jesus and given to mankind.

This means that Jesus has, in fact, commented on homosexuality even though it is not in the very narrow vein of "Jesus said..."

So, the issue comes down to whether we choose to believe what is taught in the Bible and whether you acknowledge the author. This is where those with a Christian worldview derive their information.

Addressing mankind - we are a vile, sinful and fallen race. Whether you profess a belief or non-belief in God doesn't change things.

Non-Christians commit egregious acts. Those professing Christian beliefs commit egregious acts. Each side attempts to impose their views and make laws supporting them.

There is only one answer. John has pronounced it. Ken eludes to it. Scia would agree as would I. We all need to take a deep breath and chill out while accepting one another. But Wait, There's More!

This acceptance of a person, who has a right to be treated with dignity, does not mean that we should affirm ANY or ALL illicit behavior. Laws don't really prevent behavior except for those that choose to follow the law.

Each of us may be made certain ways but that does not mean we cannot choose our behavior. All action begins with thought. We can control our thoughts thus we can control our actions albeit sometimes that almost seems an impossible task, through our own eyes. "The devil made me do it", "It's not my fault", "They made me do it", "Do it to them before they do it to you" etc. etc. etc. It's always someone else's fault.

We are a fallen race in need of a Savior. There is nothing good about me, in God's eyes,apart from Jesus, EXCEPT I have been redeemed through the atonement of sin delivered by the crucifixtion and blood covering of Jesus. Now my many sins have been forgotten and forgiven. This doesn't mean that I do not sin because I often find myself doing the very things I don't want to do instead of the things I desire to do. It's a struggle but I do confess before the throne everyday and ask for forgiveness.

Does this mean that I have a FREE pass to do wrong [sin] because I know I will be forgiven? NOPE! God does discipline those He loves just as we discipline our children who we love. I belong to Jesus and am now a joint heir with Him.

When I surrendered to Jesus and gave myself to Him my worldview began to change and as I learn more, it continues to mature, grow and increase in understanding.

There you have it. In summary,

Whereas:

* The Bible is God's word given to mankind.
* God is a triune being existing as Father, Son & Spirit while One.
* Jesus is God in human form [Son].

Therefore:

* Jesus is the author of the Bible and has spoken regarding homosexuality [as this is the topic] and all sin.
* ALL sin is an abomination to God.

P.S. Regarding lobster. The Levtical discourse was changed when the Spirit appeared to Peter and told him that all was clean to eat. Jesus established a new covenant with the human race. Through Him we will taste salvation, should we choose.

7:58 AM, July 10, 2008  
Blogger John Hosty-Grinnell said...

OMD, while I am accepting of your opinions I do not need to agree with them or live by them.

I offer you the same peace I ask of you; that we both put aside our differences and concentrate of what good we see in each other.

If we continue to focus on what seperates us we will continue to be a divided community. There is room for both our beliefs, we do not need to compromise in order to show simple respect for one another.

When will we talk about these important steps? Pontificating about Christ is fine, but not everyone lives their lives by His word, nor is that required for their equality.

11:04 AM, July 10, 2008  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

“I'm afraid that's not going to change unless those with a secular view heed the urgings of the Holy Spirit to acknowledge Jesus or that those who have a Christian view abandon their belief in Jesus.”

Why can’t Christians just keep their mouths shut? Why don’t Christians feel free to worship and let every one else live life as they see fit?

“If you believe that Bible is the word of God, given to mankind, and that Jesus is the Word of God and God the Father, God the Son [Jesus] and God the Holy Spirit are, in fact, the same person, thus One, Then the Bible is authored by Jesus and given to mankind.”

Can you imagine Jesus telling people to kill everyone in a certain place except for the young girls who are still virgins? Could you comprehend Jesus sending a bear to kill some children? Can you fathom the “love you neighbor” Jesus telling a crowd to stone to death a man that was picking up some sticks on the Sabbath?

“Non-Christians commit egregious acts. Those professing Christian beliefs commit egregious acts. Each side attempts to impose their views and make laws supporting them.”

What’s really funny is how those with Christian beliefs are more likely to commit crimes than an atheist?

“This acceptance of a person, who has a right to be treated with dignity, does not mean that we should affirm ANY or ALL illicit behavior.”

Define illicit, and then explain in a non-biblical manner why it’s wrong to act on homosexual impulses.

“We are a fallen race in need of a Savior. There is nothing good about me, in God's eyes,apart from Jesus…”

Then your god is blind.

Ken Weaver

11:27 PM, July 10, 2008  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Jesus is the author of the Bible . . . "

Oh, my. What a puerile view of the nature of Scripture. Not even worth discussing.

10:05 AM, July 12, 2008  
Anonymous omd said...

We were not discussing the nature of Scripture, rather, it's authorship. All you have done, by attempting to be insulting, is expose your own jejune qualities.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Ken, illicit ==> Contrary to accepted morality (especially sexual morality) or convention

We do not live by anarcy. Mankind from the earliest of times established socially acceptable behaviors. Thus, mankind established that there were many forms of behavior that was not aceptable. Homosexual sexual behavior happens to be one of them.

As far as acting on impulses... We all are able to constrain ourselves. Each act we of choice is just that, A Choice. We choose to lie or steal or cheat or fornicate or commit adultry. We choose whether we wil act in violence or truly hateful speech [not contrived]. The act of murder is a choice. Everything we do is by choice. No one makes us doing anything. We do good by choice and we do bad by choice.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

John, I don't think I've ever asked you to agree or live by my opinions. That is your choice.

We all live by our choices. Likewise, God does not force His will on anyone. It is by choice that we come to Him. It is by choice that we reject Him and/or His teachings. It is by choice that we believe or not believe.

However, I cannot affirm the sexual behaviors the homosexual community embraces and, what apppears to me, use as a wedge for this purported illusive "equality" the homosexual community demands.

1:09 AM, July 13, 2008  
Blogger John Hosty-Grinnell said...

"God does not force His will on anyone."

No, but you do. You wish to keep in place laws that curtail my liberties without due process. You need a valid reason to deny rights to others, especially when they are inalienable rights, like the pursuit of happiness.

Like it or not you are forced to reconcile how to live with your neighbor. Even if you choose to do nothing you have still made a course of action for yourself.

You can continue to ignore the question, but that only keeps me from understand what it is you want of me. You have the opportunity to tell me what I can do to help you, shall you take advantage of that?

9:40 AM, July 13, 2008  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

“Mankind from the earliest of times established socially acceptable behaviors. Thus, mankind established that there were many forms of behavior that was not aceptable. Homosexual sexual behavior happens to be one of them.”

OMD, I didn’t ask for a history lesson. If a child asked you why it’s wrong to steal are you going to tell them it’s wrong to steal because society doesn’t like it? I certainly hope not. It would be easy to come up with a reason for why it’s wrong to steal. I want to know why homosexual behavior is wrong. Not why it was wrong hundreds or thousands of years ago, but why it’s wrong today? Why should people feel the need to abstain from homosexual impulses? Why should they feel shame for acting on those impulses? And why should members of society feel the need to join you in a fight against homosexuality and homosexual marriage?

That shouldn’t be too difficult should it? I ask any person reading this to give me a REAL reason why? Not biblical or historical reasons, but reasons useful today.

Ken Weaver

11:27 AM, July 13, 2008  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

OMD, that may be so, but if you continue to assert that Jesus authored the Bible, I will have to continue to laugh at you.

3:26 PM, July 13, 2008  
Anonymous omd said...

anonymous - believe what you will. I've shared my thoughts with you in a civil manner. Whether you find them humorous or me to be silly because I have a different worldview that you is your choice.

I'll repeat:

God gave man His word to be recorded.

God is a triune being, meaning, God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit are one in the same.

Jesus is the Word of God. He is the Creator and judge

Therefore: Jesus being God the Son, i.e. God in human form, is the author of the Holy Scriptures and has, thus, spoken regarding homosexual behavior AND all other sexual sin.

Because you seem not to accept this then we will simply have to agree to disagree.

7:54 PM, July 19, 2008  
Anonymous omd said...

Ken,

Yes I will tell a child that society is not accepting of stealing, lying, cheating etc., I will also explain to that child that God does not want us to steal and that it is a sin and one of the 10 Commandments. I have explained to my own children that is is wrong to steal from another and if what they have is something they want then they should find a way to obtian that which they desire, legally and ethically.

There is no explanation I could provide you that you would ever except. Maybe someone of greater learning and intelligence than I could get through to you but, honestly, I doubt it because you have determined that there is nothing wrong with 2 guys sodomizing each other or performing oral stimulation of each others sexual parts. Homosexual sexual behavior is wrong because it is a proven dangerous and unnatural act. Sexual relations are for procreation and the pleasure of a man and his female wife.

Homosexual sexual behavior has been considered distasteful throughout history and continues to this day to be viewed that way.

Homosexual marriage is only the beginning. From there, and it is already happening, homosexual sexual behavior will be preached to "young" children as being normal and ok by our school. It will not stop there because it is already happening in our country where the homosexual lobby is working to eliminate a person's right to free speech regarding teaching that homosexual sexual behavior is wrong.

You watch and see. I predict that the homosexual community will prevail in all their demands. Victory will seem sweet but will turn sour in the belly. Now, it is not just the homosexual lobby. It is the desire of mankind to have no rules, no morals. Man wants anarcy. The days just beofre the return of Jesus will be just as the days of Noah just before the flood.

Read Genesis 6: 5-12 & 17 for an accounting.

8:29 PM, July 19, 2008  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

“Yes I will tell a child that society is not accepting of stealing, lying, cheating etc., I will also explain to that child that God does not want us to steal and that it is a sin and one of the 10 Commandments.”

Wouldn’t it be easier to explain that it’s wrong to steal because it hurts the victim? Do you tell that child that to even think of stealing their punishment will be the same as if they actually stole? Just because society is un-accepting of certain behaviors does not mean that those behaviors are bad. Just because society approves certain behaviors does not mean they are good. 400 years ago it was acceptable to burn people that were accused of witchcraft, was that a good thing? 100 years ago it was unacceptable for a black to kiss a white, does that mean it was bad? God never states that slavery is evil; does that mean slavery is ever acceptable? We can never depend on society alone to make moral judgments for us; we can’t depend on the bible alone to decide our morality. We have to measure our wants and wishes with the consequences not only upon ourselves, but the impact our choices make on others. The bible has been proven not to be a great all knowing moral guide, but if one wishes to use it as a “scaffold” to help with the building of our own moral judgments there is nothing wrong with that.

“Homosexual sexual behavior is wrong because it is a proven dangerous and unnatural act.”

So is drag racing, skiing, smoking, and way too many things that are even possible to list. Can’t you or anyone on freaking Earth come up with a better explanation as to why homosexuality is bad?

“…the homosexual lobby is working to eliminate a person's right to free speech regarding teaching that homosexual sexual behavior is wrong.”

Why not call it what it really is… you’re right to ridicule and discriminate.

“It is the desire of mankind to have no rules, no morals.”

We sure are going about that goal in the wrong way; we have more rules now than we did 50 years ago, and more 50 years ago than we did 200 years ago.

“The days just beofre the return of Jesus will be just as the days of Noah just before the flood.”

Genesis 6;11 The earth also was corrupt before God, and the earth was filled with violence.

Do we not have less violence today then 50 years ago? Do we not have less violence 50 years ago than 2000 years ago? Life is only getting better, our growing is sometimes painful, but better in the end.

Ken Weaver

11:06 PM, July 19, 2008  

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