Monday, March 31, 2008

A Couple Days Late and a Few Facts Short

Marc Puleo wrote an opinion piece in the "Voices" section of today's Metro that has many uncited statements and a lot of old news.

Click HERE to read full opinion piece.
Here is my response to Mr. Solomon:
In response to Mark Puleo’s March 31, 2008 letter: “MassEquality fights for universal rights” he quotes MassEquality Campaign Director Marc Solomon:
“Unfortunately, their rate (gay and lesbian youth) of suicide attempts is higher than straight youth and the HIV rate…”
This fallacious assertion which is often cited in both gay and mainstream publications is derived from a 1989 report by a special federal task force on youth and suicide which showed that: 1) gay and lesbian youths accounted for one third of all teenage suicides; 2) that suicide was the leading cause of death among gay teenagers; 3) gay teens who commit suicide do so because of “internalized homophobia” and violence directed at them.
Gay activist Paul Gibson wrote the report based on such shoddy research that Dr. Louis Sullivan, the former Secretary of Health and Human Services officially distanced himself and his department from it. Some of the questionable data and figures include the assertion that the author claims that as many as 3000 gay youths kill themselves each year. But that figure exceeds by one thousand the total number of annual teen suicides. His “one-third” figure came from looking at gay surveys taken at drop in centers for troubled teens that revealed that gay teens had two to four times the suicidal tendencies as straight kids. Gibson then multiplied this higher figure by the disputed and debunked “Kinsey 10% homosexual population” figure to produce his “30% of all teen suicides are gay.” (Peter LaBarbera, “The Gay Youth Suicide Myth,” The Journal of Human Sexuality, 65.)
Mr. Puleo’s article goes on to say, “according to Solomon, the recent hearing on the bill (protection for transgendered individuals) was a first for transgendered rights at the statehouse.”
Mr. Solomon needs to do his homework before making such out of date news flashes because as of March 20th, 2008 Bill H1722, the Transgender Rights and Hate Crimes Bill, was stopped in the Judiciary Committee as massive amounts of pressure from Pro-Family organizations took the legs right out from under this piece of legislation.
Also on March 20th, bills H1710, and S918, which would officially legalize same-sex marriage in Massachusetts was also stopped in the Judiciary Committee.
Citations and current updates may help your cause a little more than opinions and yesterdays news Mr. Solomon.

17 Comments:

Anonymous Rufus said...

There are a couple things wrong with this posting SCIA...

1. Marc Solomon doesn't disclose where he came to the conclusion gay teen suicide was higher than straight youth. You are attributing a source to him, which may not be his source at all. If you care to google statistics on gay teen suicide, you will find lots of other articles and sources, most much more up to date than 1989.

One such article...
http://www.english.iup.edu/liberalstudies/gay_teen_suicide.htm

2. Do you have any proof it was the pressure from pro-family groups (Massresistance again???) that stopped any of the pro-gay bills from moving forward? Is there a quote somewhere from someone on the commitee indicating this? Massresistance, on their site, complained they waited for hours to give their testimony, and never really got to present their side. Where did this pressure come from, and to whom? Are there reply e-mails or messages from the state house saying the bills would be stopped?
If they were caving to such pressure, why were the so-called "good" bills Massresistance submitted stopped as well?

Didn't ALL of these bills kinda die off because time ran out? Is it disingenuous for "pro-family organizations" to claim it was their presure that caused the bills to be stopped? Pro-gay web pages are saying H1722 is not stopped, and can be brought out again by the July 31st deadline.

Lastly, can you point to a mass government web page indicating the status of these bills? I have been searching, but haven't found anything yet. This would hopefully shed a lot more light on this.

6:09 PM, March 31, 2008  
Blogger SCIA said...

Rufus,

You said:

"Marc Solomon doesn't disclose where he came to the conclusion gay teen suicide was higher than straight youth."

I know Rufus, that is the problem!!

You asked:

"Do you have any proof it was the pressure from pro-family groups (Massresistance again???) that stopped any of the pro-gay bills from moving forward?"

It was the legislators who received the voicemails and e-mails and phone calls from BOTH the pro-family and transgendered community. Most of the concerns, according to legislators, came from the pro-family side. It would be neat if there was a website to show these messages, but there is no such thing.

10:38 AM, April 03, 2008  
Anonymous Rufus said...

"It would be neat if there was a website to show these messages, but there is no such thing." Then how can you claim it was the pressure from anti-gay (pro-family) groups that caused the bills from not moving forward? Are you agreeing there is no such actual proof?

11:51 AM, April 03, 2008  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Rufus I think you're being anal. A lot of what is posted on here is opinions and that's a good thing. Facts don't cause nearly the amount of discussion as opinions do.

Ken Weaver

9:53 PM, April 03, 2008  
Anonymous Rufus said...

Ken, SCIA calls his blog KNOW THY FACTS, yet sometimes makes assertions that have little basis in any actual fact.

When we state our opinions SCIA constantly calls us out on where our facts come from, so I am trying to return the challenge here.

I have no problem with opinions, and I do agree they make for better discussions. In this case, I think it is rather disingenuous to claim the pressure from pro-family groups caused these bills to be STOPPED. This is a claim only based on the fact the bills were not approved.

In several postings recently, SCIA has been using Massresistance as a source. While I have been at odds in the past with how SCIA obtains his facts and forms his opinions, I have respected his oposing viewpoint and tried to learn something from it. Massresistance, however, is another story. Have you read through any of their stories and/or blog? Unlike most of SCIA's other sources, this group really does overflow with seething hatered for anything pro-gay, and have now been listed as a hate group. SCIA repeatedly using them as a sourse to back up his opinions really struck a negative chord with me. I guess that's why I've been so vocal (and anal I suppose) as of late. If I've come off less civil, I do apologize.

5:54 AM, April 04, 2008  
Blogger SCIA said...

Rufus,

I respect you for your persistance, but beating the CRAP out of a dead horse is getting really old!

Hopefully I can put your worries to bed. As stated on my March 20th post titled: "Transgender Rights and Gay "Marriage" Bills Drown Under Pressure" it was stated:

"the Joint Judiciary Committee responded to massive public outcry and dealt a huge blow to the homosexual movement by essentially killing a whole range bills that the gay lobby has been attempting to push into law this year."

Can you please tell me who is involved in this "public outcry"? It DEFINATELY is NOT the homosexual or transgendered community, right? Why would these communities rally AGAINST a bill they want passed??!! If you take away one, the transgendered/homosexual community, that only leaves you with those who DO NOT want the bill passed, most likely the Pro-family community. It is simple math, now move on and try to learn something on this blog!!

O.K., now onto our English lesson for the day.

Define opinion:

"The judgment or sentiment which the mind forms of persons or things; estimation."

That's right boys and girls, your opinion is an ESTIMATION of what YOU think is right.

Now, define fact:

"Reality; actuality; truth;"

A fact, students, is what IS true and NOT estimated.

Opinion - This blog is interesting.

Fact - Not everyone who visits this blog thinks it is interesting (yet they keep on coming back!!).

Rufus, did you miss these two lessons when you were in grade school?????

10:34 AM, April 04, 2008  
Anonymous Rufus said...

"Rufus, did you miss these two lessons when you were in grade school?????"

There you go again, insulting and belittling, and unwilling to understand another point of view.

"An opinion is a belief or judgment that falls short of absolute conviction, certainty, or positive knowledge; it is a conclusion that certain facts, ideas, etc., are probably true or likely to prove so" (dictionary.com)

My assertion was opinions should be backed up by facts, and I thought you believed that too. I guess I was wrong.

"the Joint Judiciary Committee responded to massive public outcry and dealt a huge blow to the homosexual movement by essentially killing a whole range bills that the gay lobby has been attempting to push into law this year."

I was asking how this opinion was formed, and how they can claim such a thing. Is there proof there was a "massive public outcry", and if this had ANY bearing on the bills not moving forward.

You brought this up again in this thread, and I wanted to address it. Since you don't seem to have an answer, I am letting it go.

The dead horse will rest.

11:04 AM, April 04, 2008  
Blogger SCIA said...

Rufus,

You said (and hopefully for the last time):

"My assertion was opinions should be backed up by facts..."

"Should be" is your OPINION. Opinions are NOT backed up by facts, otherwise they are just that...facts...Understand??

You concluded with:

"The dead horse will rest."

Thank God!!

2:19 PM, April 04, 2008  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

SCIA, are you stupid? You should be able to say how you arrived at your opinion, shouldn't you? I think that is what Rufus was trying to get at.

2:43 PM, April 04, 2008  
Blogger SCIA said...

Anonymous,

No, I am not stupid or I would not have four degrees including two masters.

You stated:

"You should be able to say how you arrived at your opinion, shouldn't you?"

I like the color red. How did I come to this conclusion? I made a choice that I liked the color. No facts, just my choice, or gut feeling.

Opinions do not involve facts. Anyone else want to waste time on this topic?

3:10 PM, April 04, 2008  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

“Anyone else want to waste time on this topic?”

Oh me me me me oh please me!

Since theories are closer to being factual than opinions, shouldn’t evolution be taught in schools rather than creationism?

Ken Weaver

8:59 PM, April 04, 2008  
Anonymous omd said...

"This fallacious assertion which is often cited in both gay and mainstream publications is derived from a 1989 report by a special federal task force on youth and suicide which showed that: 1) gay and lesbian youths accounted for one third of all teenage suicides; 2) that suicide was the leading cause of death among gay teenagers; 3) gay teens who commit suicide do so because of “internalized homophobia” and violence directed at them."

When my children were in school back in the 80's & 90's I was on our school districts Health Council. We were given a package, from the state, I think it was called "Safe Schools". This program was primarily about homosexuals. One of the purported facts was #1 above.

Know, I want you to think about this purported fact and see how homosexual sympathizers twisted it.
gay and lesbian youths accounted for one third of all teenage suicides;

This means that two thirds of all teen suicides were NOT HOMOSEXUALS!! But we should concentrate on homosexuals, right? Give me a break!!

The discussion should be WHY are teens turning to suicide? ALL TEENS not just homosexual teens.

9:12 PM, April 04, 2008  
Blogger SCIA said...

Ken,

I am not touching your dead horse issue.

OMD,

Right on the money!! All teen suicides, not just Gay teen suicides.

4:40 PM, April 05, 2008  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

SO if 1/3 of all teen suicide is related to homosexuality, what are the other 2/3 of teen suicide related to?

Why is the issue of creationism and evolution a “dead horse?”

Ken Weaver

10:03 PM, April 05, 2008  
Blogger SCIA said...

Ken,

You asked:

"SO if 1/3 of all teen suicide is related to homosexuality, what are the other 2/3 of teen suicide related to?"

I am not sure if anyone can answer that Ken, since suicide could be do to a plethora of reasons. I guess my best answer to you is to read the DSM-IV to find out reasons for suicide.

9:11 AM, April 06, 2008  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

“…since suicide could be do to a plethora of reasons.”

Exactly my point Scia, if 2/3 of teen suicide is due to a large variety of reasons and 1/3 is due to homosexuality, let’s work on the most deadly issue first, when that is done we can work on the next biggest problem. Does that not seem reasonable?

Why is the issue of creationism and evolution a “dead horse?”

Ken Weaver

2:45 PM, April 06, 2008  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Ken,
What you're saying is totally reasonable. In any business situation, for example, managers identify the most problematic isssue and prioritize those to be addressed first. But, let's be honest, it is doubtful that Scia would acknowledge this as reasonable, even if he grudgingly agreed that it is. If it doesn't support his antigay stance, then he won't use logic or reason.

11:27 PM, April 16, 2008  

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