Thursday, July 12, 2007

How a 'Gay Rights' Leader Became Straight

God is regarded as an enemy by many in the grip of homosexuality or other lustful behavior, because He reminds them of who and what they truly are meant to be. People caught in the act would rather stay "blissfully ignorant" by silencing truth and those who speak it, through antagonism, condemnation and calling them words like "racist," "insensitive," "evil" and "discriminatory."

This article, by Michael Glatze, a former homosexual activist, appeared on World Net Daily on July 3rd, 2007.
Read full article by clicking HERE.

I found this story, and there are many more like it, very down-to-earth and real. Mr. Glatze's troubling past is something that many young men and women deal with today. Although society turns the other cheek or glorifies a person, for the most part, when a relative or close friend "comes out", there are many resources to help those who are taking part in the homosexual lifestyle to "come out" of such a lustful, dangerous way of life. Many of these resources, with testimonies from those who have left the homosexual lifestyle are linked on my blog such as "Love Won Out".

I do not make fun of or laugh at the homosexual community because I do not want to desensitize a dangerous behavior with humor. This is often done in Hollywood with movies such as Adam Sandler and Kevin James' new release "Chuck and Larry". In this movie, Sandler and James (“King of Queens”) play heterosexual New York City firefighters who pose as a gay couple so they can marry and help James’ character, a widower, provide for his children.
“Through this disarming type of comedy, there is this use of stereotypes and slurs, and it holds the mirror up for people to ask, ‘Where does this come from?” said Damon Romine, entertainment media director for the Gay & Lesbian Alliance Against Defamation.
"Disarming" a dangerous behavior, as homosexuality is, with comedy. This is part of the many tiered homosexual agenda that was devised in part by homosexual activists Marshall Kirk and Hunter Madsen and publicized in two publications: A 1987 article titled "The Overhauling of Straight America" and a 1989 book titled "After the Ball".
What "Chuck and Larry" also does is disenvow the valuble institution of marriage by advocating for a "tossed saled" version of what a marriage can be. If people who are NOT homosexual wish to get "married" just for the sake of helping out a family member, then by all means people should do so. But let's hide this agenda with comedy and then those who disagree with the theme are then asked to "lighten up" or are given the old adage "calm down, it is only a movie".
Whose to say that this will never happen with college graduates who want to get the cheap "family" health insurance plan in a jiffy because health insurance is now a requirement in Massachusetts? Whose to say two male or female best friends at work who have no benefits provided to them from their place of employment get "married" because they need the "bennies" in order to survive?
We as a society can not turn the other cheek and not see what is really happening with marriage. We as a society must embrace our homosexual friends and relatives and help them "come out" of their dangerous lifestyles with open arms. Lets help each other out, not enable each other's dangerous ways of living.

83 Comments:

Anonymous omd said...

What an impressive story of God's love and the life changing power He wields for those that will turn to Him and acknowledge that Jesus IS who He says He is.

"The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance. But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, in which the heavens will pass away with a roar and the elements will be destroyed with intense heat, and the earth and its works will be burned up."

"Since all these things are to be destroyed in this way, what sort of people ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be destroyed by burning, and the elements will melt with intense heat!"

2 Peter 3:9-12 NASB

9:03 PM, July 14, 2007  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

MOTHER LEARNS LATE IN LIFE TO ACCEPT GAY SON AS HE IS

DEAR ABBY: My husband and I raised our two sons and two daughters. One son and both daughters married well. Our other son, "Neil," is gay. He and his partner, "Ron," have been together 15 years, but Neil's father and I never wanted to know Ron because we disapproved of their lifestyle.

When I was 74, my husband died, leaving me in ill health and nearly penniless. No longer able to live alone, I asked my married son and two daughters if I could "visit" each of them for four months a year. (I didn't want to burden any one family, and thought living out of a suitcase would be best for everyone.) All three turned me down. Feeling unwanted, I wanted to die.

When Neil and Ron heard what had happened, they invited me to move across country and live with them. They welcomed me into their home, and even removed a wall between two rooms so I'd have a bedroom with a private bath and sitting room -- although we spend most of our time together.

They also include me in many of their plans. Since I moved in with them, I have traveled more than I have my whole life and seen places I only read about in books. They never mention the fact that they are supporting me, or that I ignored them in the past.

When old friends ask how it feels living with my gay son, I tell them I hope they're lucky enough to have one who will take them in one day. Please continue urging your readers to accept their children as they are. My only regret is that I wasted 15 years. -- GRATEFUL MOM

5:28 AM, July 15, 2007  
Blogger SCIA said...

Anonymous,

I could not agree with this story any more than you do. Those other children should be ashamed of themselves because they did not take their mother in.

The fact that the mother's "gay" son took her in does not disenvow the fact that his lifestyle is destructive. Do you know the physical/emotional/psychological/intellectual condition of this "gay" son or do you just know that he is nice for having his mom stay with him. Homosexuality causes the destruction of said conditions. Did you know that Anonymous?

What are you trying to say as a result of posting this story?

Are you trying to say that parents should not segregate their "gay" children and should accept them as they are?

I would agree with that, but why would the parents in turn not help their children with the grace of God in order to bring their children out of such a dangerous lifestyle?

Are you trying to say that the tender, loving "gay" son is the hero? What if the son who took in the mother was not "gay", would this story have made a Dear Abby column? I think the agenda that you are trying to push is the old "make 'gays' look good and make the victimizers look bad".

Why is everyone glorifying homosexuality by desensitizing the behavior with sob stories? Being "gay" is dangerous. It is not something we should advocate by "feeling bad" for the homosexual community. Yes, love your "gay" neighbor, but in turn do not love his sinful behavior just like your "gay" neighbor should not love your sinful behavior. Help each other out of sin, do not advocate for sin.

8:22 PM, July 16, 2007  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I thought you were against the indoctrination of children Scia.

Ken Weaver

6:17 PM, July 17, 2007  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Christ told us there would be people who would say they come in His name, but would be lairs. He also told us how to recognize them:

"You shall know who comes in my name by the love they bring."

Only disrespect for the gay community is represented here, and that is not God's will, it is your own. Suffer yourself to be humble before God's will and you will find He loves all, forgives all, and the glory of God's love will erase the pain of hatred from your heart, replacing it with hope and joy.

This is the point of Christ's message. We are creatures of love, and we should spend our time spreading love rather than division and judgment on each other.

Let he who is without sin cast the first stone. This matters now more than ever. Christ also did not win people's hearts through force, He won them through kindness and love. This approach is abandoned by the faithful when dealing with gay people.

There is so much anger and hate here it truly saddens me. I hope that you come to your senses and try harder than ever to let go of the hate, and find Christ. I will pray for you Scia.

8:07 AM, July 18, 2007  
Blogger SCIA said...

Anonymous,

You said:

"I thought you were against the indoctrination of children Scia."

If indoctrination involves people getting closer to the TRUE word of God, then so be it.

4:17 PM, July 18, 2007  
Blogger SCIA said...

Anonymous,

You said:

"Christ told us there would be people who would say they come in His name, but would be lairs. He also told us how to recognize them:

"You shall know who comes in my name by the love they bring."

There are three kinds of false prophets is this world.

1. Appostates
2. Herotics
3. DECEIVERS

Your being DEVEIVED by whomever is translating the Bible for you. God does not LOVE sin, and your sin and my sin he does not love. LOVE does not forgive, repentance does.

You said:

"Suffer yourself to be humble before God's will and you will find He loves all, forgives all, and the glory of God's love will erase the pain of hatred from your heart, replacing it with hope and joy."

Read 1 Corinthians 6:9 - Are you telling me that God will grant someone a license to continue in their sin of homosexuality once he forgives them?

You said:

"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone. This matters now more than ever."

Who said I am without sin?

"Christ also did not win people's hearts through force, He won them through kindness and love. This approach is abandoned by the faithful when dealing with gay people."

Yes, I agree. We all need to come together as one and hold eathother accountable for our own sins, bring eachother out from sinning anymore and loving one another with all our hearts and seeing to it that we sin no more. This is the point of Christ's message Anonymous.

You said in closing:

"There is so much anger and hate here it truly saddens me."

You can not just say this without backing it up. So, please explain yourself.

4:31 PM, July 18, 2007  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The youth worker, John Reaney, 42, who had previously worked for another diocese, was unanimously recommended for the job by a diocesan interview panel, but turned down by the bishop, the Rt Rev John Priddis, after the bishop questioned Mr Reaney about his private life, previous relationship and sexuality.

Mr Reaney had said in his original application that he was gay, but was not in a relationship and was not intending to enter one. Despite that the bishop rejected him for the post on the grounds that his lifestyle "had the potential to impact on the spiritual, moral and ethical leadership within the diocese".

At a four-day tribunal hearing in Cardiff in April Mr Reaney's legal representatives argued that a heterosexual person would not have been subjected to the same level of intrusive questioning as he was. He told the tribunal that the bishop had asked him about a previous sexual relationship during a two-hour meeting which left him embarrassed and humiliated.

Yesterday Mr Reaney said: "I'm delighted that the Bishop of Hereford has lost this case. It demonstrates to many lesbian and gay Christians working for God in the Church of England that they are entitled to fair and respectful treatment."

Richard Kirker, chief executive of the Lesbian and Gay Christian Movement, called on the bishop to consider his position. "Bishop Priddis attempted to humiliate Mr Reaney but he now stands condemned and humiliated by this judgement," he said. "By his unwarranted action the diocese will be many thousands of pounds the poorer. His judgment was clouded...by homophobia and hubris."

Ben Summerskill, chief executive of Stonewall, which supported Mr Reaney at the tribunal, said: "We're very happy for John. The tribunal has rightly made clear that the Church of England cannot discriminate against gay people with impunity."

At a press conference in Hereford Bishop Priddis said he had made the right decision in refusing to appoint Mr Reaney. "I regret the polarisation of view that tends to take place when these things happen," he said. "I took the decision after a great deal of thought and prayer and anguish. If there had been a stability of life then I would have taken a different view, but there wasn't. I don't normally ask anybody about their sex lives. Mr Reaney raised the issue, not me."

The Church of England was taking comfort last night from the tribunal's ruling that there are a small number of secular posts, including diocesan youth officers, where appointments can fall within the religious exemptions of the Sexual Discrimination Act.

6:41 PM, July 18, 2007  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

“If indoctrination involves people getting closer to the TRUE word of God, then so be it.”

Shouldn’t we KNOW that this particular religious faith is correct before we indoctrinate children to it? Until it is proven true I say it is a lie, and just because a lie is true makes it no less a lie if the person telling it doesn’t KNOW.

“At a press conference in Hereford Bishop Priddis said he had made the right decision in refusing to appoint Mr Reaney.”

Yeah just like the Cardinal in CA thought it was right to move pedophile priests to other parishes instead of addressing the problem. But I don’t blame the Catholic Church for this indiscretion; I blame Christianity in general.

Ken Weaver

7:34 PM, July 18, 2007  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

No, not Christianity but organized religion overall.

Ken Weaver

7:36 PM, July 18, 2007  
Anonymous omd said...

anonymous, please, when quoting scripture tell us the scripture you or referencing.

Are you saying that people who disagree with the homosexual agenda or homosexual sexual behavior or the homosexual community attempts to seek 'special' treatment under law are being disrespectful to homosexual men & women?

When we speak of pedophiles and their behavior are we showing disrespect towards them?

Aberrant behavior is abberant behavior, whether it is Dick on Dick or Jane on Jane or Dick or Jane with little Tommy or Suzy.

God DOES love everyone and does not want to see any perish BUT... He does not forgive everyone. He forgives those who come to Him and confess their sin, ask for forgiveness and acknowledge that Jesus is the Christ. All who come to the Father go through Jesus ONLY.

John 3:16
John 1:12
John 14:6

You quote the Bible so I will take it that because you use sources from the Bible you believe it is a true document. I mean if there is even one portion that is wrong then the whole document is tainted, thus, unreliable. You can't have it both ways. Here is a section of the Bible

"Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals,nor sodomites..."
1Corinthians 6:9 NKJV

Is this showing disrespect? I submit that it is not. It is from the Bible you reference.

Look, I admit that there are people that are vitriolic towards homosexuals and their sexual behavior just as there are homosexuals that act in a militant manner towards those that are straight. Christians do not want people to be separated from God for eternity and as we have shown the Bible says, in Jesus' words that to enter heaven one must believe in Him.

Now, if homosexuality and it's related behaviors are considered a sin, by God, just as fornication or adultry are considered sin [that must be confessed] then are we being disrespectful and hateful to fornicators and adulterors for bringing to light their sin? Read 1Timothy 1:8-14

Let's be real. We cannot just go before the throne of God and feign forgiveness then turn around and consciously keep committing the same sins without remorse and expect God to take us seriously. It is a matter of the condition of your heart that God examines. He knows if we are serious about asking for forgiveness and meaning it.

The casting the first stome reference you made. Jesus asked the crowd "who among you is without sin?" The crowd put down their rocks and left. Jesus then asked the women where her accusers were. He forgave her and told her to SIN NO MORE...

Not everyone will enter heaven. If you do not know Jesus turn to Him now and turn away from your former life and practices whether you be homosexaul or not. Jesus chose to die for us so we could choose to live for him.

9:38 PM, July 18, 2007  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

This disrespect shown here towards homosexuals is not in Christ's name. No one is being drawn here out of love, and no people will be converted by this website. This is merely an ode to anger, and that is the way of Satan, not Christ.

4:58 PM, July 19, 2007  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

“This is merely an ode to anger, and that is the way of Satan, not Christ.”

I take offense to that statement, what did Satan ever do that was so bad?

Ken Weaver

6:35 AM, July 20, 2007  
Anonymous omd said...

Weaver, you are an antagonist. Took me a while to realize that's what you've been doing.

How have you been?

8:05 PM, July 20, 2007  
Anonymous omd said...

anonymous, you did not answer my question and you also misrepresented this blog.

This blog is not here to convert people. It is a conversation place.

Expand on your statement - This disrespect shown here towards homosexuals is not in Christ's name.

What disrespect is being shown homosexuals here? Is it because some people do not agree with the homosexual agenda or is it something else?

I know that Scia does not allow overt hate messages to be posted and will delete such.

So, please, what disrespect is being shown here towards homosexuals?

8:11 PM, July 20, 2007  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

“Weaver, you are an antagonist.”

When it comes to religion, HELL YES I AM!! I am a believer in freedom of thought, and organized religion has forever been against that freedom. I’m also an antagonist when it comes to individual freedom. Freedom is the backbone of our great country, and when any entity attempts to limit freedom when there is no victim regardless of religion’s belief in that actions morality limits not only freedom but individual thought. That I feel is a declaration of war against not only me but my countrymen as well.

Pretty awful until this week. Got into a car accident in early June and been laid up until Monday this week. It sucks to miss work; I love my job.

Ken Weaver

8:42 PM, July 20, 2007  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Asking what is disrespectful to gay people on this website is laughable. It would be easier to answer what is NOT disrespectful. Don't insult your own intelligence with dumb questions like that.

This place is for dialog, but it goes off the premise that those who support it are defenders of the holy. Holiness and hatred have nothing in common.

5:08 PM, July 21, 2007  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

“Holiness and hatred have nothing in common.”

No way that’s true. Judeo-Christian religions are based on hatred in all sorts of forms. Sexism, racism and hate against homosexuals. Too many people look in the bible with blinders on so all they see is the good parts, while they can remain unawares as to the bloodlust of the supposed creator. Christians like to indoctrinate their children to the belief that homosexuality and sexuality in general is sinful, yet can’t tolerate that their children be given a different point of view. That’s the really crappy part of religion today. Each person holds a belief that the path that they’re on is the only path that might lead a soul to heaven. Any differing viewpoint is blasphemy and only leads a person to hell. Almost all religions today follow that belief. Is it really surprising when any one religion gains the kind of power Christianity has in the U.S. that when a person stands up to their beliefs they are incredulous at how we’re not going to “inherit god’s kingdom.” Even when you tell them you want no part of that inheritance they still think they hold the responsibility to save you from yourself. And then they wonder why non-Christians file lawsuits to remove a religious symbol from a courthouse or the “under god” part of the pledge of allegiance.

Ken Weaver

11:07 PM, July 21, 2007  
Blogger SCIA said...

Ken and Others,

When you engage in civil discourse and a question is asked, the next best thing to do is answer the question.

If the question is not answered then it has to be concluded by the other party that is presenting the question that you A) Agree with what the "other party" is saying and can not refute their claim or B) You have no idea what you are talking about.

Ken,

OMD presented three (3) questions in his previous post that you have not anwered. Let me publish them again:

1. Are you saying that people who disagree with the homosexual agenda or homosexual sexual behavior or the homosexual community attempts to seek 'special' treatment under law are being disrespectful to homosexual men & women?

When we speak of pedophiles and their behavior are we showing disrespect towards them?

2. "Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals,nor sodomites..."
1Corinthians 6:9 NKJV

Is this showing disrespect? I submit that it is not. It is from the Bible you reference.

3. Now, if homosexuality and it's related behaviors are considered a sin, by God, just as fornication or adultry are considered sin [that must be confessed] then are we being disrespectful and hateful to fornicators and adulterors for bringing to light their sin? Read 1Timothy 1:8-14

-----------------------------
I look forward to what your responses will be as we all try and understand eachother a little better through the question and answer process.

Scia

2:17 PM, July 22, 2007  
Blogger SCIA said...

Ken,

I am sorry that you got into a car accident. Were you seriously hurt?

Hope all is well.

Anonymous,

Can you answer OMD's question:

"Expand on your statement - This disrespect shown here towards homosexuals is not in Christ's name.

What disrespect is being shown homosexuals here? Is it because some people do not agree with the homosexual agenda or is it something else?"

Thank you.

Scia

2:23 PM, July 22, 2007  
Blogger SCIA said...

Anonymous,

Your "answer" to OMD's question of my blog's "showing disrespect towards homosexuals is not in Christ's name":

"Asking what is disrespectful to gay people on this website is laughable. It would be easier to answer what is NOT disrespectful. Don't insult your own intelligence with dumb questions like that."

You fall under catagory A: You agree that this site is not disrespectful in Christ name as a result of your inability in trying to refute this claim.

As a result of your "answer" you are also deemed intellectually lazy and can not form articulate responses in order to engage in any type of civil discourse now or in the very near future.

2:34 PM, July 22, 2007  
Blogger SCIA said...

Ken,

In response to Anonymous' statement of:

“Holiness and hatred have nothing in common.”

You replied:

"No way that’s true. Judeo-Christian religions are based on hatred in all sorts of forms. Sexism, racism and hate against homosexuals."

Can you cite scripture that proves this or are you just "translating" scripture for your own justification purposes?

You said:

"Christians like to indoctrinate their children to the belief that homosexuality and sexuality in general is sinful,..."

Again, please cite scripture.

You said:

"Each person holds a belief that the path that they’re on is the only path that might lead a soul to heaven. Any differing viewpoint is blasphemy and only leads a person to hell. Almost all religions today follow that belief."

Again, please cite where this is true.

I have presented you three (3) questions.

Thanks for stopping by.

2:41 PM, July 22, 2007  
Anonymous omd said...

Ken, I'm glad that you are still around but sorry you got hurt. I'm keeping you in prayer.

What happened?

10:18 PM, July 22, 2007  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

“Ken,

OMD presented three (3) questions in his previous post that you have not anwered. Let me publish them again:”

I think OMD was questioning the unknown anonymous rather than myself as I always put my name on the bottom of my messages. Nonetheless I’ll answer them to the best of my ability.

1. I’m not sure about this whole agenda myth. Whenever a person finds a groups ideologies contemptible they always come up with a supposed agenda that the group wishes to impose, whether that group holds that belief or not. It soon becomes a rallying cry for the opposition. So excuse me for ignoring that part of the question. As for being disrespectful I’m not really sure, it could go either way depending on the actual tone the person is taking. They may not be disrespectful, it may just be ignorance. Some people just can’t fathom that a person’s bedroom activities are so different from their own. In my youth I was a very angry person. If I could find fault with another individual or group I automatically found some way to hate them to the point of violence. Homosexuals were a group that I did hate in that time. I have matured much since then and now see that what a person does to please themselves that does not create victims should be treated with the same respect I wish to have. If a person does not agree with homosexual behavior they have but to exclude themselves from that behavior and I won’t have any problem with it. But when a person attempts to condemn another person’s lifestyle because they don’t agree with it I find that disrespectful because they are not treating others the way I can assume they wish to be treated. If a heterosexual likes bondage or role playing or S&M I won’t care as long as there partner wishes to take part as well. But many who don’t consider those “sexual behaviors” good form seem to accuse them of perversion. Who are they to judge? I generally don’t go around condemning Christianity until someone attempts to tell me that I won’t inherit god’s kingdom unless I embrace their religious beliefs. My first response is “I don’t care,” but some just won’t get the clue. For example a couple of weeks ago I was watching some TV and a couple of Mormon missionaries knocked on my door. I told them I had no wish to hear their testimonies and no wish to converse with them because I already knew enough about their church. Instead of saying okay they asked me for a glass of water. I gave each of them a glass of cold water (it was like 105 that day) and while they were drinking (slowly I might add) they again tried to continue with their wish for me to listen to them. At this point I am aggravated, so I tell them to leave the glasses on the porch when they’re done and I proceed into my house. It seems Christians in general just can’t take no for an answer. I try to be respectful but when they’re continuing after I ask them to stop it shows disrespect to me. I hope that answers your question.

2. Once again; I don’t care.

3. Yes because most Christians don’t want to say it just once and go on their happy way. They try to force their ideologies on their “sinful” counterparts. If I am in fact “sinful” I don’t mind someone saying so and going on their way, but when I say “I don’t care” they should get the hint and move along; but they rarely do.

“Were you seriously hurt?”

Not seriously no, I do have muscular dystrophy so when a muscle is strained I must take special care in the healing process. I do seem to be better now but I still have some aches but nothing serious.

“Can you cite scripture that proves this or are you just "translating" scripture for your own justification purposes?”

I can. Give me a few days and I’ll have it all together for you

“I have presented you three (3) questions.”

Should I just post where it is in the bible or should I post the whole part?

Ken Weaver

8:42 PM, July 23, 2007  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

omd said...
Ken, I'm glad that you are still around but sorry you got hurt. I'm keeping you in prayer.

Your best wishes would be just as good, but feel free to pray if you so wish. But be forewarned; praying on my behalf may get god to throw a thunderbolt at your head. Just kidding.

“What happened?”

I honestly don’t know except that the guy behind me was stupid. He had to be going at least 35 mph and I was stopped. The other lane was open but I was worried I’d miss my turn if I switched lanes. The guy behind me apparently wasn’t paying attention. He was in a little Ford Contour and I was in my pickup. He totaled my truck with that little car! $5800 to fix my truck and it’s worth $4000. The guy bent my frame so my trusty truck will have to go to the salvage yard. Too bad too, I’ve got almost 300,000 miles on her and she’s never let me down. I guess I’ll just have to hope my next truck will treat me as well as this one has.

Ken Weaver

8:52 PM, July 23, 2007  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"As a result of your "answer" you are also deemed intellectually lazy and can not form articulate responses in order to engage in any type of civil discourse now or in the very near future."

This is typical of your arguing fashion to hurl insults, but I shall not do so in return. I will simply remind you that as many bloggers like yourself do, I reserve the right not to qualify nonsense questions with intelligent answers.

Christ calls us to be compassionate to each other. Can you prove to me where this exists on this blog?

4:21 PM, July 24, 2007  
Anonymous omd said...

Expand on compassionate, please. What is your definition?

Is disagreeing with the homosexual agenda or any other dangerous lifestyle not allowed for fear it could be deemed uncompassionate by the practicing parties or those sympathetic to dangerous lifestyles?

Is conversation not allowed in the arena of ideas and thought?

Granted there could be folks that may not be as eloquently endowed in the verbal arts as you, but they have a right to be heard too.

Scia will not allow overt defamatory speech on this blog, thus, I do not agree with your assessment.

Why do you not answer and attempt to squelch discourse?

Christ is compassionate but he also calls a spade a spade.

4:53 AM, July 26, 2007  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

My question still remains:

"Christ calls us to be compassionate to each other. Can you prove to me where this exists on this blog?"

It is my experience that sites like these show people what to fear, but never how to win hearts over to Christ. We are fishers of men, where is your net?

11:51 AM, July 27, 2007  
Blogger SCIA said...

Anonymous (NOT KEN W. - mixing the Anonymouses up),

You asked:

"Christ calls us to be compassionate to each other. Can you prove to me where this exists on this blog?"

I will answer your question once you have answered mine. Again, when engaging in debate a question is asked and the other party answers. Between OMD and myself, we have asked you six (6) questions as of LAST WEEK. You have failed to answer ANY of them.

I answer ALL questions when asked, just like Ken, and my other readers have done and will continue to do.

Just like you can not carry on a conversation without responses and rebuttle, fishermen can not catch fish without a net or a fishing pole.

I look forward to hearing your responses to the following questions:

1. Read 1 Corinthians 6:9 - Are you telling me that God will grant someone a license to continue in their sin of homosexuality once he forgives them?

2. You said:

"There is so much anger and hate here it truly saddens me."

I replied with:

"You can not just say this without backing it up. So, please explain yourself."

3. The fact that the mother's "gay" son took her in does not disenvow the fact that his lifestyle is destructive. Do you know the physical/emotional/psychological/intellectual condition of this "gay" son or do you just know that he is nice for having his mom stay with him. Homosexuality causes the destruction of said conditions. Did you know that Anonymous?

OMD asked:

1. Are you saying that people who disagree with the homosexual agenda or homosexual sexual behavior or the homosexual community attempts to seek 'special' treatment under law are being disrespectful to homosexual men & women?

2. What disrespect is being shown homosexuals here (on my blog)? Is it because some people do not agree with the homosexual agenda or is it something else?

3. Now, if homosexuality and it's related behaviors are considered a sin, by God, just as fornication or adultry are considered sin [that must be confessed] then are we being disrespectful and hateful to fornicators and adulterors for bringing to light their sin? Read 1Timothy 1:8-14

8:13 PM, July 27, 2007  
Blogger SCIA said...

Ken,

You said in response to my 3 questions:

A)"No way that’s true. Judeo-Christian religions are based on hatred in all sorts of forms. Sexism, racism and hate against homosexuals."

I replied with:

"Can you cite scripture that proves this or are you just "translating" scripture for your own justification purposes?"

You replied back with:

"I can. Give me a few days and I’ll have it all together for you."

Great. I look forward to your answers.


B)You said:

"Christians like to indoctrinate their children to the belief that homosexuality and sexuality in general is sinful,yet can’t tolerate that their children be given a different point of view."

C)You said:

"Each person holds a belief that the path that they’re on is the only path that might lead a soul to heaven. Any differing viewpoint is blasphemy and only leads a person to hell. Almost all religions today follow that belief."

You asked in your recent comments:

"Should I just post where it is in the bible or should I post the whole part?"

Post the whole-part with scripture where-abouts.

Thanks Ken.

P.S. Are you going to take any legal action against the goof-ball who hit you?

It is good to hear that you are O.K.

Scia

8:23 PM, July 27, 2007  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

As I thought, you recognize that there is no compassion for homosexuals on this blog, or in your heart. This is why you won't bother to try and correct me on my observation.

Christ does not give us permission to turn our backs on our brothers simply because we disagree with how they are living their lives. We are called to minister to and give love to the unworthy in the hope that some day they will see the light. For some, this understanding comes late in life, and if we give up on them, we break God's commandment to love thy brother.

The choice, like theirs, is yours my friends, but if you look past what God wants to follow your own hatred, expect to suffer the consequences of that decision.

8:06 AM, July 29, 2007  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I will respond to your queries with the full verse and placement. However it will take longer than I expected; my son took my bible from my desk and now doesn’t remember where he put it. Grrrrrrrrr.

“P.S. Are you going to take any legal action against the goof-ball who hit you?”

Not unless I have to. He works for the state and their insurance should take care of it. At least he wasn’t an illegal alien.

Ken Weaver

9:48 AM, July 29, 2007  
Anonymous omd said...

Why won't you answer the questions? You point an accusatory finger then have nothing to back it up.

I cannot answer your question as you have not cited any incidences of your accusation. As I have stated, before, I don't see any hateful statements on the blog. Please point out
where Scia, myself or Ken have engaged in any overt vitriol. Secondly, Scia monitors defamatory speech and edits/disallows hate and true hate speech.

I submit:

1. This blog's primary purpose is not a soul winning endeavor. It exists in the public forum as a place for thoughts, ideas & discourse about the topics the blog owner submits.

2. The subjects are not made up by the blog owner. They emanate from other media sources.

3. My sense is that you are sympathetic to homosexual sexual behavior/lifestyle or are a homosexual yourself (or any derivative of such) and view any discussion that is not supportive of that behavioral lifestyle as hate and hate speech.

Let us know your ideas, thoughts and opinions. We want to engage with you but we cannot because it seems you will not. Besides you can join in the antagonist camp with Ken ;~) I'm just teasing you KW

7:25 AM, July 30, 2007  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"I cannot answer your question as you have not cited any incidences of your accusation."

It is not my place to cite instances where this website shows compassion, that would be for whoever wishes to defend it. My position is that is you are going to claim the "holier than thou" line of thinking, you have to live it. Living it requires you to have an open heart for the possibility that someone might come to Christ late in life.

2:46 PM, August 01, 2007  
Anonymous omd said...

Huh???? I asked you to cite where the blog was guilty of no compassion. Compassion comes in many forms. Bringing ones sins to light can be viewed as an act of compassion.

Is the following an accusation or a general overall statement?

You wrote:

"My position is that if you are going to claim the "holier than thou" line of thinking, you have to live it."

I tend to agree with the overall tenor of the statement with one caveat though. We don't have the ability to do so 100% of the time.

From Romans 3: 10-23

10 as it is written,
"THERE IS NONE RIGHTEOUS, NOT EVEN ONE;

11 THERE IS NONE WHO UNDERSTANDS, THERE IS NONE WHO SEEKS FOR GOD;

12 ALL HAVE TURNED ASIDE, TOGETHER THEY HAVE BECOME USELESS; THERE IS NONE WHO DOES GOOD, THERE IS NOT EVEN ONE."

13 "THEIR THROAT IS AN OPEN GRAVE, WITH THEIR TONGUES THEY KEEP DECEIVING,"
"THE POISON OF ASPS IS UNDER THEIR LIPS";

14 "WHOSE MOUTH IS FULL OF CURSING AND BITTERNESS";

15 "THEIR FEET ARE SWIFT TO SHED BLOOD,

16 DESTRUCTION AND MISERY ARE IN THEIR PATHS,

17 AND THE PATH OF PEACE THEY HAVE NOT KNOWN."

18 "THERE IS NO FEAR OF GOD BEFORE THEIR EYES."

19 Now we know that whatever the Law says, it speaks to those who are under the Law, so that every mouth may be closed and all the world may become accountable to God;

20 because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin.

Justification by Faith

21 But now apart from the Law the righteousness of God has been manifested, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets,

22 even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction;

23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God...

Of course the caveat is that we ALL have fallen short of God's Glory. Even those of us that have turned ourselves over to God.

"Living it requires you to have an open heart for the possibility that someone might come to Christ late in life.

You make a good point. Both my mother & father asked Jesus to forgive them just before they died. One was 66 yrs. old the other, 86.

And while you have made 2 good points that people should heed, I would ask you to realize that just because people give their lives to Christ and are changed , on a spiritual level only, the flesh is still fallen and it is that flesh that we all struggle with each and everyday. We may be "Christians" but we are human at the same time and subject to the same temptations and desires as those that are not Christian.

There are none that are rightous, not one. We have ALL fallen short of God's expectations. We are all sinners, each and everyone of us.

8:00 PM, August 01, 2007  
Blogger SCIA said...

Anonymous,

You said:

"As I thought, you recognize that there is no compassion for homosexuals on this blog, or in your heart."

As a 7th question for you, in which 6 of them have not been answered by you so far over the past two weeks:

Where have I recognized that there is no compassion for homosexuals on this blog?

Why are you spinning your wheels with spreading lies and passing your intellectually inept opinions off as fact?

You don't know how to engage in civil discourse, which is apparent to everyone who has followed this thread.

Answer the questions and I will answer yours. It is that simple. If you can not do this then please leave this blog so those who know how to comment on topics with dialog can enjoy the issues I present.

8:00 PM, August 01, 2007  
Blogger SCIA said...

Ken,

No big. Take your time in finding your Bible.

How old is your son?

8:01 PM, August 01, 2007  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Finding compassion on this blog for homosexuals is like asking someone in a dessert to point out the water. This blog is completely lacking of compassion, so I challenge you instead to point out instances of it that I missed seeing.

If a drunk is a sinner because he drinks, and he continues to drink while he claims to wishes to be cured, by the same logic you use with homosexuals, he is not worthy of your effort. If all sinners were held to the same standards you hold homosexuals, how then is anybody who is not already saved through finding Christ worthy of your help?

In order to claim the high road, you must be on the high road, and I am just not buying it.

7:43 AM, August 03, 2007  
Anonymous omd said...

I guess you will continue to refuse to answer the questions pose to you. I've given you every opportunity to answer and yet you are still bent on pointing an accusatory finger.

Define compassion. IS DISAGREEING WITH THE HOMOSEXUAL LIFESTYLE, SEXUAL BEHAVIOR & AGENDA equate to being uncompassionate in your eyes?

10:57 AM, August 03, 2007  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

One can set up a straw man in the following ways:

1. Present a misrepresentation of the opponent's position, refute it, and pretend that the opponent's actual position has been refuted.
2. Quote an opponent's words out of context -- i.e., choose quotations that are not representative of the opponent's actual intentions (see contextomy).
3. Present someone who defends a position poorly as the defender, refute that person's arguments, and pretend that every upholder of that position, and thus the position itself, has been defeated.
4. Invent a fictitious persona with actions or beliefs that are criticized, and pretend that the person represents a group of whom the speaker is critical.
5. Oversimplify a person's argument into a simple analogy, which can then be attacked.

4:47 PM, August 06, 2007  
Anonymous omd said...

Ok. As you choose not to expand on your ideas, engage in conversation, answer questions posed to you, establish clarity for you statements and all you want to do is point accusatory fingers with no evidence to support your accusations, I consider our discourse to be completed.

God's grace and peace to you

8:51 AM, August 09, 2007  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Okay, I still have been unable to locate my Bible. My son doesn’t remember where he put it. It might have gotten mixed in with my Mother-in-law’s things as she’s moving in. Anyway, if I still have been unable to find my Bible by Sunday I’ll post something then but it won’t be as tidy as I would have liked. My son is 19 by the way.

“Finding compassion on this blog for homosexuals is like asking someone in a dessert to point out the water. This blog is completely lacking of compassion, so I challenge you instead to point out instances of it that I missed seeing.”

Where does it say this is a compassionate website? Just because someone claims to be Christian does not automatically mean they will be compassionate. This place is not about compassion, it is about dialogue; the exchange of thoughts and ideas.

Ken Weaver

7:03 PM, August 09, 2007  
Blogger Tyler Dawbin said...

Compassion is warning people of the dangers that lie ahead of them - not blindly loving them while ignoring their destruction.

Having compassion on my daughter means lovingly teaching her what is right and what is wrong, and establishing consequences for her when she does what is wrong.

Having compassion on homosexuals means educating them on how to find a new life that is free from sin and lived for Christ - if that is possible.

Others have had compassion on me by warning me about the dangers that I was getting myself into, and I didn't hate them for it (much).

What you want is a blessing on something that is clearly spelled out as wrong and immoral, in scripture, in life, in reality, in facts and evidence collected over centuries.

Do you want us to be compassionate, or blindly ignorant?

William Wilberforce writes, "If you love someone who is ruining his or her life because of faulty thinking and you don't do anything about it because you are afraid of what others might think, it would seem that rather than being loving, you are in fact being heartless." (Real Christianity, Revised and Updated by Bob Beltz, p.17, Regal Books (C)2006 by Bob Beltz)

William Wilberforce was a Christian that helped to end slavery in England. He was by no means heartless as he scolded his fellow lawmakers for their blind support of slavery. SCIA is by no means heartless. What he is doing here is a form of compassion.

I am, however, unsurprised that you don't see it that way. That's the response I've been getting from your ilk for years.

9:49 AM, August 10, 2007  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"....and forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us...."

You better hope God is a lot less judgmental than you are.

5:48 PM, August 10, 2007  
Anonymous omd said...

When a Christian confesses their transgressions to God and are truly sorry for those transgressions God not only forgives those transgressions, He also FORGETS those transgressions. BUT the key to confession is truly being remorseful for your transgression and doing everything possible to not have it happen again.

If we just go before God and confess sin simply because we have a mistaken understanding about God's mercy, He knows we are not serious. He knows the minds and hearts of all. He fashioned us in the womb and He even knows how many hairs are on each of our heads. (He doesn't have many left to count on mine ;~) LOL)

I'll say it again, We MUST be truly repentent. God judges not only the mind of men but also the heart.

The only one, here, that seems to be judging is you, anonymous.

1:03 PM, August 11, 2007  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Compassion: Deep awareness of the suffering of another coupled with the wish to relieve it.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/compassion

There is no compassion on this blog for gay people. This is nothing but a hate-fest.

People on death row are worthy of a continued effort to reach and save their souls. We go to them without judgment and show them compassion without regard to their sins.

People sin all the time, some repetitiously, yet I can only find one sin that people act like it is worth ex-communication. Why the sin of homosexuality gets so much attention and revilement is beyond me. It seems that people who hate gays either hate themselves for being gay, or just don't have any gay friends.

4:52 AM, August 12, 2007  
Blogger Tyler Dawbin said...

Anonymous, who hates "gays"?

"Compassion: Deep awareness of the suffering of another coupled with the wish to relieve it."

Is there something you wish to be relieved of, or do you simply come here to vent frustration?

12:01 PM, August 12, 2007  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hello all! Well I finally found my bible so I can easily show what I was talking about.

This started with an anonymous person stating: Holiness and hatred have nothing in common.

I replied with: No way that’s true. Judeo-Christian religions are based on hatred in all sorts of forms. Sexism, racism and hate against homosexuals.

Scia said: Can you cite scripture that proves this or are you just "translating" scripture for your own justification purposes?

So here goes:

Sexism: Deuteronmy 25 11-12
11When men strive together one with another, and the wife of the one draweth near for to deliver her husband out of the hand of him that smiteth him, and putteth forth her hand, and taketh him by the secrets:
12Then thou shalt cut off her hand, thine eye shall not pity her.

Judges 19 25-30
25But the men would not hearken to him: so the man took his concubine, and brought her forth unto them; and they knew her, and abused her all the night until the morning: and when the day began to spring, they let her go.
26Then came the woman in the dawning of the day, and fell down at the door of the man's house where her lord was, till it was light.
27And her lord rose up in the morning, and opened the doors of the house, and went out to go his way: and, behold, the woman his concubine was fallen down at the door of the house, and her hands were upon the threshold.
28And he said unto her, Up, and let us be going. But none answered. Then the man took her up upon an ass, and the man rose up, and gat him unto his place.
29And when he was come into his house, he took a knife, and laid hold on his concubine, and divided her, together with her bones, into twelve pieces, and sent her into all the coasts of Israel.
30And it was so, that all that saw it said, There was no such deed done nor seen from the day that the children of Israel came up out of the land of Egypt unto this day: consider of it, take advice, and speak your minds.

These men are cowards!! Instead of going out and fighting for righteousness, they cower and let the criminals do what they wish to the woman. And then we don’t know if she died or just passed out but instead of giving her a proper burial this heart broken husband cuts her up and sends the pieces of her around to start a war.

1 Corinthians 3-15
3But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.
4Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonoureth his head.
5But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven.
6For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered.
7For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man.
8For the man is not of the woman: but the woman of the man.
9Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man.
10For this cause ought the woman to have power on her head because of the angels.
11Nevertheless neither is the man without the woman, neither the woman without the man, in the Lord.
12For as the woman is of the man, even so is the man also by the woman; but all things of God.
13Judge in yourselves: is it comely that a woman pray unto God uncovered?
14Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him?
15But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering.


Racism: Numbers 31 17-18
17Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.
18But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.

Now before this there was a war and all the men of the opposing city was killed. I doubt it was mercy that caused the boys to be kept alive but I’d call killing those boys and all the non-virgins a form of ethnic cleansing; racism at its best. By the way, what do you you their going to do with all those virgins? Don't worry, I'm sure its humane and moral. It is the bible you know. (Dripping with sarcasm)

Joshua 8 19-27
19And the ambush arose quickly out of their place, and they ran as soon as he had stretched out his hand: and they entered into the city, and took it, and hasted and set the city on fire.
20And when the men of Ai looked behind them, they saw, and, behold, the smoke of the city ascended up to heaven, and they had no power to flee this way or that way: and the people that fled to the wilderness turned back upon the pursuers.
21And when Joshua and all Israel saw that the ambush had taken the city, and that the smoke of the city ascended, then they turned again, and slew the men of Ai.
22And the other issued out of the city against them; so they were in the midst of Israel, some on this side, and some on that side: and they smote them, so that they let none of them remain or escape.
23And the king of Ai they took alive, and brought him to Joshua.
24And it came to pass, when Israel had made an end of slaying all the inhabitants of Ai in the field, in the wilderness wherein they chased them, and when they were all fallen on the edge of the sword, until they were consumed, that all the Israelites returned unto Ai, and smote it with the edge of the sword.
25And so it was, that all that fell that day, both of men and women, were twelve thousand, even all the men of Ai.
26For Joshua drew not his hand back, wherewith he stretched out the spear, until he had utterly destroyed all the inhabitants of Ai.
27Only the cattle and the spoil of that city Israel took for a prey unto themselves, according unto the word of the LORD which he commanded Joshua.

Now these “mighty men of valor” killed every person in that place. Man, woman and child. I’m sure a crying 4 year old posed such a great threat to god and the Israelites.

Judges 18 7-27
7Then the five men departed, and came to Laish, and saw the people that were therein, how they dwelt careless, after the manner of the Zidonians, quiet and secure; and there was no magistrate in the land, that might put them to shame in any thing; and they were far from the Zidonians, and had no business with any man.
8And they came unto their brethren to Zorah and Eshtaol: and their brethren said unto them, What say ye?
9And they said, Arise, that we may go up against them: for we have seen the land, and, behold, it is very good: and are ye still? be not slothful to go, and to enter to possess the land.
10When ye go, ye shall come unto a people secure, and to a large land: for God hath given it into your hands; a place where there is no want of any thing that is in the earth.
11And there went from thence of the family of the Danites, out of Zorah and out of Eshtaol, six hundred men appointed with weapons of war.
12And they went up, and pitched in Kirjathjearim, in Judah: wherefore they called that place Mahanehdan unto this day: behold, it is behind Kirjathjearim.
13And they passed thence unto mount Ephraim, and came unto the house of Micah.
14Then answered the five men that went to spy out the country of Laish, and said unto their brethren, Do ye know that there is in these houses an ephod, and teraphim, and a graven image, and a molten image? now therefore consider what ye have to do.
15And they turned thitherward, and came to the house of the young man the Levite, even unto the house of Micah, and saluted him.
16And the six hundred men appointed with their weapons of war, which were of the children of Dan, stood by the entering of the gate.
17And the five men that went to spy out the land went up, and came in thither, and took the graven image, and the ephod, and the teraphim, and the molten image: and the priest stood in the entering of the gate with the six hundred men that were appointed with weapons of war.
18And these went into Micah's house, and fetched the carved image, the ephod, and the teraphim, and the molten image. Then said the priest unto them, What do ye?
19And they said unto him, Hold thy peace, lay thine hand upon thy mouth, and go with us, and be to us a father and a priest: is it better for thee to be a priest unto the house of one man, or that thou be a priest unto a tribe and a family in Israel?
20And the priest's heart was glad, and he took the ephod, and the teraphim, and the graven image, and went in the midst of the people.
21So they turned and departed, and put the little ones and the cattle and the carriage before them.
22And when they were a good way from the house of Micah, the men that were in the houses near to Micah's house were gathered together, and overtook the children of Dan.
23And they cried unto the children of Dan. And they turned their faces, and said unto Micah, What aileth thee, that thou comest with such a company?
24And he said, Ye have taken away my gods which I made, and the priest, and ye are gone away: and what have I more? and what is this that ye say unto me, What aileth thee?
25And the children of Dan said unto him, Let not thy voice be heard among us, lest angry fellows run upon thee, and thou lose thy life, with the lives of thy household.
26And the children of Dan went their way: and when Micah saw that they were too strong for him, he turned and went back unto his house.
27And they took the things which Micah had made, and the priest which he had, and came unto Laish, unto a people that were at quiet and secure: and they smote them with the edge of the sword, and burnt the city with fire.

So this city of supposedly peaceful people die by the sword so the tribe of Danites can steal their land. This is a way of man I thought gods people would be more peaceful.

Hate against homosexuals:
Leviticus 20 13
13If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

I think this speaks for itself so no more need be said on this.

I said: Christians like to indoctrinate their children to the belief that homosexuality and sexuality in general is sinful,...

Scia said: Again, please cite scripture.

I don’t think citing scripture would be productive on this topic, but am I wrong? Do most Christians not teach that sexual acts without marriage is a sin? I know Tyler Dawbin has a young daughter that he may or may not have yet spoken with her on the subject of sex. Do you think he’ll teach her that god wants her to wait until marriage for sex? Do you think he might teach her that homosexuality is sinful? I know Tyler is not all Christians but he seems to be pretty devout in his Christian beliefs and I’d argue that most Christians are in fact teaching their children that sex prior to marriage is sinful, even though some of god’s favorites had if not sex prior to marriage at least adulterous affairs. If you would like me to quote scripture on that I most definitely can.

I said: Each person holds a belief that the path that they’re on is the only path that might lead a soul to heaven. Any differing viewpoint is blasphemy and only leads a person to hell. Almost all religions today follow that belief.

Scia responded with: Again, please cite where this is true.

You’ve said it yourself Scia when we were discussing the Hindu prayer in politics. You said that Hinduism is a false religion. And taken that to the next logical step is when OMD quoted Jesus as saying that “He says that He is the way, the truth & the life. He says that no one enters the Kingdom of God or has access to the Father unless they go through Him [Jesus]. He says He is the gateway and that all that try to enter through anything but the gate is a liar and and a thief.”

I know this is really long and I’m sorry but Scia you did ask me to put both the quote from the bible as well as its placement.

Ken Weaver

4:50 PM, August 12, 2007  
Blogger Tyler Dawbin said...

Oh, Ken, your evidence is incontravertible.

I'm abandoning my faith.

Thank you for showing me that Christianity is an evil, hate-filled religion!

I'm going to start praying to Allah now...

10:16 AM, August 14, 2007  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

“Thank you for showing me that Christianity is an evil, hate-filled religion!

I'm going to start praying to Allah now...”

Islam is no better, sorry.

Ken Weaver

5:53 PM, August 14, 2007  
Blogger Tyler Dawbin said...

Is it no worse?

8:34 AM, August 15, 2007  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

“Is it no worse?”

It depends on what you’re looking for. If you want to evade a religion because of the violence of its membership, you need to stay away from all religions, or invent your own. I’m sure most Muslims are not violent, but Muslims do have their extremists, as do Christians and every other organized religion I know of. If you must have religion, I suggest you invent your own and then keep it for yourself. That way you can avoid wackos joining your religion and staining its reputation.

Ken Weaver

5:11 PM, August 15, 2007  
Blogger Tyler Dawbin said...

Is it that all religions are bad, or that all of mankind is inherently bad?

If a religion were defined by it's membership, then a religion that I have defined myself would be inherently evil, Ken, just as it would be if you had invented it.

Do you know what separates Christianity from the rest of the world religions, Ken?

10:04 AM, August 16, 2007  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

“Is it that all religions are bad, or that all of mankind is inherently bad?”

I don’t think religion in and of itself is “bad” but when men control as much power as those in the religious hierarchy whose religions control the hearts and minds of millions in their pews they will ALWAYS become arrogant. They say absolute power corrupts absolutely. Religion as I see it is at the forefront of any example to that statement. If men would put a belief in god and not try the conversion policy, religion could possibly remain pure. But when people travel throughout the world with the intention of converting others to their beliefs power can come in groves. And with that power comes arrogance. That arrogance becomes a way of looking down on others that don’t believe the same way. And when people start looking down on others, it becomes a platform for hatred and bigotry. Scia said it himself when he stated that Hinduism is a false religion. It is impossible to KNOW which religion is true or false; all you can do is follow your beliefs and have a faith that your religion is the one god approves. The big three of religions all follow a standard that says without equivocation that if you don’t follow their belief system, god will not recognize you. That is arrogance. So to answer your question religion is not really bad but man invented religion and with it comes power and arrogance.

“If a religion were defined by it's membership, then a religion that I have defined myself would be inherently evil, Ken, just as it would be if you had invented it.”

If you invent a religion yourself and follow at least a belief that no harm should come to others as a result of your belief, your religion has the capability to remain pure. But that would be up to the inventor.

“Do you know what separates Christianity from the rest of the world religions, Ken?”

If it’s not the belief that Christ was the messiah; no I don’t; would you mind telling me?

Ken Weaver

1:19 PM, August 16, 2007  
Blogger Tyler Dawbin said...

I wouldn't mind telling you at all, Ken. I appreciate the dialog!

Most world religions involve holding to some certain standard in order to make God happy. There is a system of "pleasing God" or reaching out to Him in some way.

In Christianity, you have this God descending to humanity to become one of us, to walk among us, to teach us, to show us love, and to lead us to know Him more.

In Christianity, you have a God that isn't pleased by what you do, but is pleased to offer Himself up to you in order that you might have a relationship with Him.

Christianity is based on having an intimate, personal relationship with God through Jesus Christ. I don't send my prayers up, hoping that He might hear me. I talk to Him as a friend, as a brother, as a Father. I do not disrespect Him by doing this, I still refer to Him as God, knowing that He is holy and I am not, but in this relationship I have with God through Jesus Christ, I know that I cannot please him enough that I might be saved, although He is pleased when I obey Him.

It's not what I've done that grants me my salvation, it's what He has done that grants me my salvation - it's the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross that has set me free from sin and death.

As the song from Casting Crowns, "Who am I", says, "Not because of who I am, but because of what you've done, not because of what I've done, but because of who you are."

Here's the whole song, chew on the lyrics...especially where it says, "...would call out through the rain, and calm the storm in me".

Who am I, that the Lord of all the earth
Would care to know my name
Would care to feel my hurt
Who am I, that the Bright and Morning Star
Would choose to light the way
For my ever wandering heart

Not because of who I am
But because of what You've done
Not because of what I've done
But because of who You're

I am a flower quickly fading
Here today and gone tomorrow
A wave tossed in the ocean
A vapor in the wind
Still You hear me when I'm calling
Lord, You catch me when I'm falling
And You've told me who I am
I am Yours, I am Yours

Who Am I, that the eyes that see my sin
Would look on me with love and watch me rise again
Who Am I, that the voice that calmed the sea
Would call out through the rain
And calm the storm in me

I am Yours
Whom shall I fear
Whom shall I fear
'Cause I am Yours
I am Yours

7:32 PM, August 16, 2007  
Blogger Tyler Dawbin said...

Are you sure that man invented religion?

7:33 PM, August 16, 2007  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

“Are you sure that man invented religion?”

Yes. Do you think that god created religion?

Ken Weaver

11:03 PM, August 16, 2007  
Blogger Tyler Dawbin said...

No, I think God hates religion.

That's why He wants you to have a relationship with Jesus Christ.

5:18 AM, August 17, 2007  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

“No, I think God hates religion.”

So we can agree that man created religion, ALRIGHT!!!!!

“That's why He wants you to have a relationship with Jesus Christ.”

To have a relationship with Christ one must be able to believe he is at least listening when you speak to him. That’s where I’ll fall down every time.

Ken Weaver

5:43 PM, August 17, 2007  
Blogger SCIA said...

Ken,

Your ways of justifying that sexism, racism, and hate against homosexuals is found in Deuteronmy, Judges, Number, Joshua, and Leviticus is pretty amusing.

We have had this conversation before about the old and new covenents (AKA old and new testaments), so I can only repeat the truth to you again:

In past posts you were correct in saying that you are outside of the new covenant of King Messiah (Yeshua ha Mashiach, Jesus the Messiah). Per your own admission you are not part of this covenant, i.e., You do not believe that Yeshua (Jesus) rose from the dead and proclaimed a new covenent that was not made by the descendents of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob but by the resurection of Christ Himself(if that is so you must believe that Yeshua was a mere mortal who died and is still dead).

However, that does not mean I have no right to demand that you adhere to a morality, even one that is deemed so by the prevailing society. As a member of society, and merely on that ground, should one comply with the mores of the society. Most likely, you are upset that I am part of the New covenant of the Messiah (i.e. a Christian), and am placing my moral values on you solely from the standpoint of my covenantal relationship to Yeshua, though most likely the moral value is the same as that placed by society as well.

I cannot say 100% percent that whatever moral values you are deeming as part of the covenant with Messiah Yeshua are also acknowledged by society at large as being the same.

You asked:

"Do most Christians not teach that sexual acts without marriage is a sin?"

Sexual acts without marriage is sinful. This is what the Word of God states. What is your point?

You said:

"I’d argue that most Christians are in fact teaching their children that sex prior to marriage is sinful, even though some of god’s favorites had if not sex prior to marriage at least adulterous affairs."

Yes, some of God's people led EXTREMELY horrible lives with adultery, ect, but they were blessed with the grace of God because they ASKED for God's forgiveness. Not being smart when I ask you Ken, but have you asked God for his forgiveness and if so what has occurred when you did?

You said in closing:

"Any differing viewpoint is blasphemy and only leads a person to hell."

leads a person who will be separated from the love of Christ forever (AKA the stigmatized version of fire and brimstone (hell).

Your response was not long. Thank you for ANSWERING my question in DETAIL. I envy that about you Ken. Great job.

It is interesting to know how you translate scripture because I and my Christian brothers need to show you the right translation so we can ALL learn about the truth that lies in His word.

Scia

8:33 PM, August 17, 2007  
Blogger SCIA said...

Ken,

You said:

"To have a relationship with Christ one must be able to believe he is at least listening when you speak to him. That’s where I’ll fall down every time."

Why don't you think Christ is listening to you?

8:43 PM, August 17, 2007  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

“Your ways of justifying that sexism, racism, and hate against homosexuals is found in Deuteronmy, Judges, Number, Joshua, and Leviticus is pretty amusing.”

The only thing I was trying to justify was this statement I made: No way that’s true. Judeo-Christian religions are based on hatred in all sorts of forms. Which was a response to this statement: Holiness and hatred have nothing in common. If the Old Testament has no value in morality, why refer to it at all?

“However, that does not mean I have no right to demand that you adhere to a morality, even one that is deemed so by the prevailing society. As a member of society, and merely on that ground, should one comply with the mores of the society.”

Sorry Scia but I will butt heads with you on this one every time. You have NO right to demand I follow any morality that has no benefits to a society other than to follow an ancient text that has not been proven to be accurate word for word. Your Christian morals can help you in leading your life, but if I want to sleep with 100’s of women (or men) your covenant with god holds no bars to me and how I wish to live my life. My life is my own to live and to ruin if I so wish. I will allow you to live your Christian moral lifestyle without any laughing or condemnation; all I ask for in return is the same courtesy from you.

“Sexual acts without marriage is sinful. This is what the Word of God states. What is your point?”

I was justifying this statement: Christians like to indoctrinate their children to the belief that homosexuality and sexuality in general is sinful, yet can’t tolerate that their children be given a different point of view.

“Not being smart when I ask you Ken, but have you asked God for his forgiveness and if so what has occurred when you did?”

I don’t feel I owe him an apology. Especially since I’m not sure he exists.

“leads a person who will be separated from the love of Christ forever (AKA the stigmatized version of fire and brimstone (hell).”

You prove me right once again. What hell is is not my concern (although some might think it should be.) So you actually believe (not know) that if an individual doesn’t worship god as you they will go to hell.

“It is interesting to know how you translate scripture because I and my Christian brothers need to show you the right translation so we can ALL learn about the truth that lies in His word.”

Interesting thought. My cousin said that for a while too, and then he got frustrated and said something about throwing pearls at pigs. What idiot throws pearls at pigs anyway?

“Why don't you think Christ is listening to you?”

My wife is a Christian (why she married a godless heathen like myself I’ll never understand, but lucky me!!) She always tells me that after she prays she gets a feeling that she can’t put into words. She has come to rely on those feelings as answers to her questions from god. I haven’t prayed in years but I never had any odd feelings that I couldn’t explain (unless I was high.) I always believed that since I got none of those feelings one of 2 things is true. 1. No one is listening to my prayers. 2. The existence of god is false.

Ken Weaver

9:28 PM, August 17, 2007  
Blogger Tyler Dawbin said...

So we can agree that man created religion, ALRIGHT!!!!!

Yes, Ken, man invented religion.

Islam: If you're really, really good and you obey Allah by slaughtering infidels, you'll get 72 black-haired virgins in the afterlife. My comment: Clearly a MAN made religion.

Buddhism: If you're good in this life, you'll be something better in the next life, until you finally achieve Nirvana (nothingness). My comment: If all these people who follow this idea claim to have been kings, priests, royalty, etc., what the heck did they do wrong to be working at a McDonald's flipping burgers? Besides, what man wouldn't want an eternity of Nirvana (as long as there's a TV set and a fridge full of beer...). I can do nothing FOREVER? Woo-hooooooooooo!

Hinduism: Just be good, do the right things, everyone comes back as something so don't do anything bad to animals, they might be your cousins in the next life. My comment: Ummmmm...red meat is tasty. OK, I'm a little lost on how to answer that one.

Christianity: Follow the poor, dead Jewish carpenter that was hated by everyone except a few men - and even they ended up abandoning Him at the end of His life. My comment: This whacked religion is not for me...unless of course He didn't STAY dead, then it's worth investigating a little more.

SO I ask you, Ken - DID Jesus stay dead, or did He walk from the tomb like the scriptures say...like Josephus says...like some other historians (Origen?) say?

IF Jesus walked out of that tomb...it would have taken someone greater than Jesus to have invented that story, and for it to hold up against the test of time.

Jews say the disciples stole the body. Where is it, then?

Muslims say it was someone that looked like Jesus. Why did His disciples recognize Him on the cross, then? Why did Thomas put his fingers in His wounds?

Other religions say He swooned...if so, why wasn't the Roman soldier executed for lying about His being dead?

Some even say that He never existed...then why is the rest of the Bible so accurate, except for it's central figure?

Ken, to your two points made above, I offer you door number three.

3) Your faith is weak, and you simply refuse to believe in what is clearly being laid out before you as a factual existence of the Messiah.

Keep up the dialogue, Ken.

You remind me of a friend of mine in Phoenix that believed that his sin was too great, and that God would never forgive him. Eventually he realized that there is no sin that God cannot forgive - there is only one way to get to Hell, and that is to forever deny that Jesus is your savior.

No one who gets to hell will believe that God chose that for them. They will know that they chose it for themselves.

Think about it, Ken. The choice is yours. Has God opened your eyes to see yet? Or would you like to know more? I can only rationalize, the Holy Spirit has to knock down the wall that separates you from having saving faith in Christ.

Do you feel God knocking on your heart, asking to be let in?

9:05 PM, August 18, 2007  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hey Tyler, what I’m writing has very little to do with our discussion, but I felt it important enough to relay it to you to give you an idea of where I am in this discussion.

I was watching a few videos on youtube the other day and a person (or group) was offering a free DVD on the fallacy of Christianity. All I had to do was to make a video of myself rejecting god and Christ. They even warned you beforehand that this is a religious crime which will doom you to hell once you did it. I started getting my camera and getting all set up to make this video of myself rejecting god and Christ. But when it came time to do it, I just couldn’t. I sat there looking at the camera wanting to say the words but I just couldn’t do it. I still want the video because I am curious, but I guess I’m still not ready to give up on god. I want there to be a god, I really do, but I find myself unable to let go of my opinions. I am unable to let go of what I know (or at least what I think I know.) I know it would make my wife happy if I at least started to believe in religion, but so far I can’t. I don’t know how to let go. I don’t know how to let god in. I need something, but I don’t know what it is. I’m willing to listen to what a person says, but I can’t be expected to just accept what they’re saying as truth without something to back it up. To be honest I don’t know why I even come here to Scia’s site. It’s really weird but I almost feel a friendship with Scia and Omd even though all we do is argue back and forth and agree on almost nothing. I even start finding myself liking you even though we have little to no common ground. I find myself teetering back and forth between an almost belief in god and an almost complete rejection. Whenever I get close to one side or the other something happens or I read something that pulls me back in the opposite direction. Maybe I’m just fickle, or maybe I’m just not a strong enough person to place my bet and let the dice roll.

You don’t have to respond to this if you don’t wish, but like I said, I felt it was important.

And I’ll respond to your other postings tomorrow, in my usual agnostic manner.

Ken Weaver

11:01 PM, August 18, 2007  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

“SO I ask you, Ken - DID Jesus stay dead, or did He walk from the tomb like the scriptures say...like Josephus says...like some other historians (Origen?) say?”

All I can say is; I don’t believe so. What I know of death tells me that when a human dies, the human stays dead.

“IF Jesus walked out of that tomb...it would have taken someone greater than Jesus to have invented that story, and for it to hold up against the test of time.”

Not really, all religions have some improbable if not impossible stories within its teachings to impress the masses. And as for standing the test of time it doesn’t mean much. The belief that lightning was wrath from god was believed until sometime in the early 19th century, and started no later than 600 BC. Now we know it’s just static electricity. Although some people still believe that lightning/thunder/hurricanes are all manifestations of god’s wrath. That story has been around longer than Christianity.

“Some even say that He never existed...then why is the rest of the Bible so accurate, except for it's central figure?”

I’ve got to ask for some evidence regarding that statement.

“Your faith is weak, and you simply refuse to believe in what is clearly being laid out before you as a factual existence of the Messiah.”

This you’ve got right on the money. My faith is weak if not non-existent.

“Think about it, Ken. The choice is yours. Has God opened your eyes to see yet? Or would you like to know more?”

I would like to know more.

“Do you feel God knocking on your heart, asking to be let in?”

If it feels like uncertainty; yes.

Ken Weaver

7:11 AM, August 19, 2007  
Blogger Tyler Dawbin said...

Ken, I've heard of the Blasphemy Project, and what they are doing is dangerous - because there are some of those people that have made the video that may one day want to change their mind, and think that they haven't a choice in the matter.

So what's holding you back?

9:18 AM, August 19, 2007  
Blogger Tyler Dawbin said...

I would like to respond to your request for evidence about the accuracy of the Bible.

The Bible doesn't just tell stories about people in general, and places in general, it tells stories about specific people and places.

It would be difficult for me to exhaustively point out all of the cases in which the Bible is historically and geographically accurate, but suffice to say that the places and people mentioned throughout are real places and people that existed and still exist.

Nineveh is a real place. You can read about it in Jonah. In fact, the sermon series in my church is on Jonah - who really wasn't much of a prophet, complaining to God because He didn't wipe out the Ninevites.

Jerusalem and Bethelehem are obviously real places, and they still exist today.

The kings and that are mentioned around the time of Jesus - Herod, Pilate, etc. - they are real historical figures.

So my question was - why would everything in the Bible be so accurate, save for it's central figure, Jesus Christ?

That wouldn't make much sense, would it?

9:44 AM, August 19, 2007  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

From evilbible.com

Prophecies to Identify the Messiah, Which Jesus Does Not Fulfill:

1) Matthew 1:23 says that Jesus (the messiah) would be called Immanuel, which means "God with us." Yet no one, not even his parents, call him Immanuel at any point in the bible.

2) The Messiah must be a physical descendant of David (Romans 1:3 & Acts 2:30). Yet, how could Jesus meet this requirement since his genealogies in Matthew 1 and Luke 3 show he descended from David through Joseph, who was not his natural father because of the Virgin Birth. Hence, this prophecy could not have been fulfilled.

3) Isaiah 7:16 seems to say that before Jesus had reached the age of maturity, both of the Jewish countries would be destroyed. Yet there is no mention of this prophecy being fulfilled in the New Testament with the coming of Jesus, hence this is another Messiah prophecy not fulfilled.

Ken Weaver

12:23 PM, August 19, 2007  
Blogger Tyler Dawbin said...

Evil Bible dot com?

OK, I'll see what I can tell you to answer these questions.

Immanuel means "God with us," but Jesus means Jehovah is salvation, or God our savior...which really means that God is with us.

With respect to Jesus as a descendent of David, both Mary and Joseph (Jesus' earthly father) were in the lineage of David. The two genealogies given are from both sides...maternal and paternal (earthly).

Isaiah 7:16 seems to be a dual prophecy...the child that is talked about in this verse is a different child.

Good questions, but not impossible to answer, and not being a theologian I can only give you a semi-educated answer from what I find in the pages of the internet, and what I know from my own research.

4:12 PM, August 19, 2007  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

“Isaiah 7:16 seems to be a dual prophecy...the child that is talked about in this verse is a different child.”

Okay, now you’re going to tell me that there were supposed to be two children named Immanuel and both born from virgin mothers? This takes insanity to a whole new level.

Ken Weaver

8:38 PM, August 19, 2007  
Blogger Tyler Dawbin said...

No, that's not what I'm saying. It's possible there are two different prophecies in this passage about two different children born at two different times.

4:37 AM, August 20, 2007  
Blogger Tyler Dawbin said...

7:14 through 7:16, I should have clarified...

4:37 AM, August 20, 2007  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Isaiah 7

14Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.
15Butter and honey shall he eat, that he may know to refuse the evil, and choose the good.
16For before the child shall know to refuse the evil, and choose the good, the land that thou abhorrest shall be forsaken of both her kings.

Sorry Tyler but I can’t find anything in this passage that even remotely could be referencing another child.

Ken Weaver

7:40 AM, August 20, 2007  
Blogger Tyler Dawbin said...

Ken, you've asked a good question, I don't have a good answer.

All I know is that Jesus is the messiah...but I'm not a scholar.

8:41 AM, August 20, 2007  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

“All I know is that Jesus is the messiah...but I'm not a scholar.”


Tyler, how do you know? What makes your faith so strong? Do you have any to spare? I could use some. I don’t expect you or anyone else to know all the answers to my questions, just enough so I can move on.

Ken Weaver

12:34 PM, August 20, 2007  
Blogger Tyler Dawbin said...

Wow, great questions!

I know because of my faith, and what makes my faith so strong? I know this might sound like circular logic, but it's God. He opened my eyes to see...and now I see, and as I learn more I see more of His character, His plan, His love, and His righteousness.

What I have to spare I continue to give you, Ken. I can only share with you what I know, what I've learned, what I continue to learn.

What I can't give you is the change that happened inside me when I finally took a hold of the faith that God was instilling in me. If you want faith in God, Ken, just ask Him to open your eyes. I know that you've done it before, but maybe you weren't ready then for some reason? Maybe God's timing is perfect, and now is the time that He had planned for you in advance?

Faith is a strange thing...salvation is a strange thing. It's an action on our part, but when we take it, we realize that it was Him all along drawing us in, leading us towards Him, loving us through our pains and our weaknesses. This isn't to say that God controls your salvation, but He does know ahead of time what you will choose.

Only God knows your heart thoroughly, Ken. Only He can touch you in a way that will make you respond to His love.

Revelation 3:20, "Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with him, and he with me"

4:18 PM, August 20, 2007  
Blogger SCIA said...

Ken,

You said in a post of yours on August 17th:

"Christians like to indoctrinate their children to the belief that homosexuality and sexuality in general is sinful."

Where is it said that sexuality is sinful?

You said as I laughed out loud:

"What idiot throws pearls at pigs anyway?"

You said in closing:

"I always believed that since I got none of those feelings one of 2 things is true. 1. No one is listening to my prayers. 2. The existence of god is false."

The effective prayer of a righteous man can accomplish much - James 5:16

Prayers that may seem impossible to you and me are exceedingly possible to God if you will simply have faith in God.

I listen to John MacArthur, Pastor-Teacher of Grace Community Church in Sun Valley, California, and President of The Master's College and Seminary every morning on 590 am here in MA.

Dr. MacArthur is part of the "Grace to You" radio show that airs around the globe. Look him up on your radio dial and lets discuss what he says. Can you do that Ken? It will be an interesting experience to see how you view his show.

Type in "Grace to You 2007 Radio Guide" using a great search engine called "Dogpile.com" to see where in AZ you can listen to the program.

Scia

7:46 PM, August 27, 2007  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

“Where is it said that sexuality is sinful?”

In the bible women are always getting in trouble for sexual sins. In the bible Peter writes that a man should only get married if that’s what he needs to do to remain good in the eyes of god. From that statement I believe he is saying that it is better to be celibate, but if you can’t, get married. I believe sex before marriage is good for you! How would you know if you’re partner was any good if you didn’t have anything to base it on? How would a man know if he was marrying a frigid woman? Who’s going to teach him to perform and vice versa? Two virgins is the blind leading the blind.

“Prayers that may seem impossible to you and me are exceedingly possible to God if you will simply have faith in God.”

Running me around in circles Scia? I’ve heard it before. Pray with faith and god will show himself. But since I have no faith …

“Grace to You 2007 Radio Guide”

It’s on at 5:00 am and 6:30 am in Phoenix. I’m not sure I’ll want faith if that’s what it takes to get it.

Ken Weaver

11:56 AM, September 05, 2007  
Blogger SCIA said...

Ken,

You said:

"I believe sex before marriage is good for you! How would you know if you’re partner was any good if you didn’t have anything to base it on?"

NOT Biblical based words...LOL!!


You concluded with:

"It’s on at 5:00 am and 6:30 am in Phoenix. I’m not sure I’ll want faith if that’s what it takes to get it."

Your not willing to try? What kind of atheist are you?

3:11 PM, September 05, 2007  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

“Your not willing to try? What kind of atheist are you?”

If I was an actual Atheist I wouldn’t be looking for some clue into the existence of god or the lack of said god. As an Agnostic, I have been unable (or unwilling) to follow one belief or the other. I am willing to try but at 6:30 am?! Isn’t there something else I can do? I’m not saying I won’t do it, I just won’t like it.

Ken Weaver

12:19 AM, September 06, 2007  
Blogger Tyler Dawbin said...

Ken, I didn't realize you live in Phoenix. You are very near a friend of mine that went through a struggle with his faith...I think I brought him up before.

What if he were willing to talk to you sometime, would you listen?

8:51 AM, September 06, 2007  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

“What if he were willing to talk to you sometime, would you listen?”

Yes I would listen. I’m not opposed to hearing another person’s struggle with faith and their ability to overcome that block. I am hopeful that one day I’ll hear the right words and that will help me in my quest for understanding. But be forewarned, my wife says I am very bullheaded.

Ken Weaver

2:27 PM, September 06, 2007  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hey Scia, I was up early today and attempted to listen to the radio show you suggested. I don’t think that schedule is correct for me although I’m not sure why. At 6:30 there was a guy on and he had 3 topics. The 1st was homosexual marriage in Iowa, I can’t remember the 2nd topic and the 3rd was playing tag in school. At 7:00 it went to a Dr. RC Sholl (not sure that’s correct) from a St. Andrews church. Was either one what you heard today? I know I was on 1360 AM because they did a number of station identifications. I also looked again on the schedule you suggested and they didn’t give time zone info so I have to assume they are all local times.

Ken Weaver

7:35 AM, September 09, 2007  

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