Friday, July 20, 2007

Bishop Discriminated Against "Gay" Youth Worker

A gay man won a landmark case of unlawful discrimination against the Church of England yesterday after a bishop refused him a job because of his sexuality.

An employment tribunal ruled that John Reaney, 42, had been discriminated against "on grounds of sexual orientation" when he was turned down for the post of youth worker in the diocese of Hereford.
Mr Reaney, from Colwyn Bay, north Wales, said he was "delighted" by the decision, which could have implications for employment policies in the Church.
But the Bishop of Hereford, the Rt Rev Anthony Priddis, said he was "naturally disappointed" and was considering whether to appeal. The Lesbian and Gay Christian Movement said the bishop should resign.
During the tribunal hearing in Cardiff in April, Mr Reaney said that he had been asked intrusive questions by Bishop Priddis about his previous gay relationship during a two-hour meeting in July 2006.
Mr Reaney, who had been told that he was the outstanding candidate for the job, said that the meeting had left him feeling embarrassed, upset and "a total waste of space".
Three days after the meeting, the bishop telephoned Mr Reaney to say his application had not been successful.
During his evidence, Bishop Priddis said he had made it clear to Mr Reaney that a person in a sexual relationship outside marriage, whether they were heterosexual, homosexual, bisexual or transgender, would be turned down for the post. The Bishop said that Mr Reaney's behavior was contrary to official Church teaching and had "the potential to impact on the spiritual, moral and ethical leadership within the diocese".
The tribunal found that Bishop Priddis should have considered only the present lifestyle of Mr Reaney, who is single, and he should not have speculated about potential future relationships.
Delivering the judgment, the tribunal said the case would be listed for a remedy hearing and Mr Reaney is expected to be awarded substantial damages.
Mr Reaney, who had already worked in two Church of England dioceses where he had been praised for his achievements, was delighted at the outcome. He said the case "demonstrated to many lesbian and gay Christians working for God within the Church of England that they are entitled to fair and respectful treatment".
Ben Summerskill, the chief executive of Stonewall, which funded Mr Reaney's legal action, said the verdict was "a triumph for 21st century decency over 19th century prejudice".
The Rev Richard Kirker, the chief executive of the Lesbian and Gay Christian Movement, whose sympathisers include a number of Church of England bishops, said the bishop should resign.
This is a just outcome," he said. "The Church has brought this humiliation on itself.
"The case need never have been brought if the Church was not institutionally homo-phobic."
But Bishop Priddis said:
"I still think the decision I made was the right one. I regret the polarisation of view that tends to take place when these things happen," he said. "I took the decision after a great deal of thought and prayer and anguish. If there had been a stability of life then I would have taken a different view, but there wasn't. I don't normally ask anybody about their sex lives. Mr Reaney raised the issue, not me."
Under the Employment Equality (Sexual Orientation) Regulations 2003, it is illegal to discriminate against people as a result of their sexual orientation, but the law does contain an exemption for organised religion.
The bishop said the tribunal had recognised the exemption, but the post of youth worker was among a handful of lay jobs that fell within it.
He said: "It is the duty of every bishop to uphold spiritual, moral and ethical standards and the tribunal agreed.
"However, in the light of the tribunal decision the Hereford Diocesan Board of Finance will again look at its recruitment literature to make clear the teaching and requirements of the Church in respect of the lifestyle of those in leadership roles."
If I go into an organized Gay and Lesbian club and become a member and then decide to apply for a chairmen position, but then get turned down because of my heterosexual lifestyle, does that mean I can therefore sue because of discrimination?
This whole England case makes ZERO sense in terms of its application to U.S. law. In the words of Pope Leo:
"In a Christian country, therefore, the Church has a divine right to speak out against any encroachments by a secular state".
Look, the church, in the U.S. at least, is protected under the first amendment to teach Christianity is its purest form. For example, let's take 1 Corinthians 6:9 -
"Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be
DECEIVED: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God."
As Michael Glatze, a former homosexual activist, said in my previous post:
"God is regarded as an enemy by many in the grip of homosexuality or other lustful behavior, because He reminds them of who and what they truly are meant to be. People caught in the act would rather stay "blissfully ignorant" by silencing truth and those who speak it, through antagonism, condemnation and calling them words like "racist," "insensitive," "evil" and "discriminatory."
This case has NO leg to stand on in regards to how it pertains to the U.S. Constitution. If England rules in favor of Mr. Reaney, great, but this case would NEVER hold water in America.
"However, in the light of the tribunal decision the Hereford Diocesan Board of Finance will again look at its recruitment literature..."
Translation: "In the light of those who apply law, the Hereford Diocesan Board of Finance will suck up to our secular progressive countrymen and bow down to them because I, Bishop Priddis, will not stand up for the word of Christ like He stood up for me by suffering greatly on the cross for my sins"
What a gimp!

22 Comments:

Anonymous fed up said...

Ya, like no one else in life is ever discriminated against!

I supposed homosexuals being of such frail psyches just can't live in the same world the rest of us live in.

EVERYONE gets discriminated against. Your fat you get discriminated against, your ugly you get dicriminated against, the jib you went for went to somebody's friend or relative, your skin is a different color you get discrimnated against, you have a disability and you get discriminated against, you're a Christian and you get discriminated against, you don't look right and you get discriminated against.

There's much much more.

BUT homosexuals go running to the government boo-hooing "they don't like me because I'm gay" Then they say "We need special protections and special privileges" even though there are laws on the books against violence and discrimination that cover everyone BUT those laws are only good enough for the rest of the world, right?

So homosexuals need special laws that offer them more protection than everyone else, right? AND they are willing to bribe politicians to get it and rub the homosexual lifestyle in everyone else's face. There's nothing worse than a bully except a whining, sniveling run and tell mama baby.

Do I hate homosexuals?

NO! Could care less about how they want to live. Just go live your live's and blend in instead of bandstanding.

8:14 AM, August 06, 2007  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

So what do you suggest fed up? As this case is in UK it has no real effect on those in the U.S. but if it was here do you have any suggestions other than suck it up? As a society it is our duty to demand equality on all fronts. We must strive for a perfect equality. Especially if the society we wish to have is one of peace.

Ken Weaver

6:55 PM, August 09, 2007  
Blogger Tyler Dawbin said...

SCIA, I know you read that book I sent you...

What they are carefully doing is dismantling Christianity.

1) Get a gay priest/pastor/leader installed in a church

2) Said priest/pastor/leader gets caught in inappropriate behavior with children/other

3) Church gets bad press, shut down, loses members because now the church is no longer a holy place where children are safe, but a place where those that were to be protected are instead preyed upon

4) Christ in all of His power and glory now seems like a joke because His supposed "followers" are no better than the rest of us

5) Other options now appear equally "valid" to Christianity because, after all, isn't it all about just being a "good person"?

Repeat process...

I just finished "Real Christianity" by William Wilberforce.

There IS a difference between those who call themselves Christians, and those who really are Christians.

Matthew 7:21-23 - "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'

The root of the problem is not in Christ and His teachings, it is in people claiming His name and not knowing Him personally in their heart and soul.

Supposed "Christians" who attempt to become priests while living unholy lives, and then sue the church because they are rejected for their unholy lifestyle, are not Christians but are rather wolves who seek to come in and destroy the lambs of the flock. They want a Christianity that doesn't influence culture, but is influenced by it.

The church needs to drive the culture, not the other way around. Thanks for posting this, my friend!

10:00 AM, August 10, 2007  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

“What they are carefully doing is dismantling Christianity.”

Oh, so the whole Catholic priest scandal was set up by the liberals/gays/secularists/atheists (take your pick) for the downfall of Christianity? And the Evangelist from Utah? That was a setup? So no Christians had anything to do with it right? Oh yeah here’s this that you wrote..

“There IS a difference between those who call themselves Christians, and those who really are Christians.”

So I guess real Christians wouldn’t do any awful things.

Well since you gave your theory, I’ll give mine. Christianity and religion is failing because it is time for it to. Too many Christians/Jews/Muslims (real or fake they all look the same to me) attempted to control the masses with fear. Fear that they’ll spend an eternity in hell if they don’t repent their sins; even the sins they didn’t commit but were committed by some ancestor that ate some fruit from the tree of knowledge. Religion is failing because more and more people everyday are rejecting the supposed superior morality of the believers (real and fake.) We’re sick of the genital mutilation done by Jews/Christians/Muslims in an attempt to control the sex drive that comes to us naturally. Funny part is, if god did create humans, wouldn’t he have made them perfect to begin with? No of course not. Humans have to get in there and cut something off so the child will be accepted by the god that made him in the first place. I say it’s all an attempt to control. To control the mind, body and (because of a lack of a better word) soul. The religious teachers tell their flock to teach the children. I say it’s a travesty to teach a child to believe in something that has no evidence to support it before a child is old enough to understand reality let alone the mythology. That’s brainwashing! And the parents should be ashamed. The priests should be ashamed. All religion should be ashamed. Religion is failing because it must. As do all falsehoods, in due time.

Ken Weaver

11:28 PM, August 10, 2007  
Anonymous omd said...

Ken, God did make humans perfect. We were without sin and in perfect harmony with God until the woman was deceived and the man willfully disobeyed God. Even then we were created with free will.

After that, mankind's nature was fallen and filled with sin. They had given room for satan to enter. lucifer's desires have always been that he is equal to God. This is the same thing he preaches today...being equal to God and ruling in place of God. satan wants the throne.

You want to examine God and judge Him as being acceptable or unacceptable based on human reasoning when we all know that human reasoning is seriously flawed. God is God. We are not His equal. We are created by Him. There are things we cannot understand because human reasoning is not perfect.

It is written in the Holy Scriptures:Isaiah 55:8 & 9

For My thoughts are not your thoughts, Nor are your ways My ways," declares the LORD.
For as the heavens are higher than the earth, So are My ways higher than your ways And My thoughts than your thoughts.

Think about it.

You are correct Ken... man is composed of mind, body & soul. A soul is what distinguishes us from the lower created orders.

You are correct again when you point and say "look what mankind has done in the name of God." The operative words are... what mankind has done. We are ALL guilty, Ken, not just those professing Christianity. Would any atrocity be acceptable to you no matter who the perpetrator is? Are you suggesting the only horrors that mankind has committed have been in the name of God?

Using your reasoning, then mankind must fail because mankind is imperfect. Or are you saying that the imperfections are what make mankind acceptable?

12:48 PM, August 11, 2007  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

“You want to examine God and judge Him as being acceptable or unacceptable based on human reasoning when we all know that human reasoning is seriously flawed. God is God. We are not His equal. We are created by Him. There are things we cannot understand because human reasoning is not perfect.”

So how can we measure good and evil? If god is the embodiment of all that is good we should be able to measure the differences between Satan and god and see the purity of god easily. Especially since according to what I know of religion Satan is just as incapable of good as god is incapable of evil. According to The Case for Faith the differences between god’s thought process and humanity’s is greater than the differences in our thought process and those of ants. If that is true, god cannot love us because it would be way too easy to not even ponder our existence any more than when we walk down the street and step on a number of ants along the way. And as humans, how is it possible for us to love a being we cannot even comprehend? If god did indeed create us, he must have put special attention to our ability to discern good from evil, yet in our limited capacity to distinguish good from evil we have realized it is evil to punish a child for a parents’ choices. We as humans understand it does absolutely no good to punish other beings for the acts of one or two beings. If my dog chews on my shoe I don’t punish its offspring or my cat, I punish the actual dog that chewed my shoe. If I do otherwise, should I be surprised when my other shoe is torn apart?

“Would any atrocity be acceptable to you no matter who the perpetrator is?”

No

“Are you suggesting the only horrors that mankind has committed have been in the name of God?”

No, but it more disgusting when it is. If a man comes to me to invest in beach front property in Arizona but he takes my money buys a new Caddy and leaves town, I know what happened and why. If a preacher asks for my tithe and then goes and buys a new caddy and leaves town I have to wonder if I can’t trust a man of god, who can I trust. For me to follow a belief in god I must have a place to start. What better place to start than an organized religion that will explain the rules and expectations of god. I won’t ever trust LDS (Mormons) because they taught blacks were of a lesser race than whites due to the war in heaven. Then all of a sudden their prophet comes out and says “wow, epiphany, we got it all wrong, blacks are actually ok.” The Protestants and Catholics of 1700 and prior believed in the statement “Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live” but not that long ago they said “wow, epiphany, that was the Old Testament, the New Testament says differently.” The bible hasn’t changed. Its writings remain. Yet those that proclaim their ability to interpret that ancient text into useable ideals for us to follow suddenly get epiphanies that change the moralities of everyday life. If those religions are so easily able to turn their beliefs 180 degrees, how can any of us trust them? How can you? I can easily change my morals and ideals when I gain new information, but religion says it already has all the needed information and morals should stay consistent, but they don’t. If I can’t trust religion to remain consistent, I will refuse their counsel, their statements, and their arrogant belief that their religion is the one and only way to god. If your god actually sees into my mind, is able to comprehend my doubts about him and his followers and sends me to the gallows for my inability to trust in him so be it. I won’t need an escort on the way down, because hell would probably be better than heaven for me at that point.

“Using your reasoning, then mankind must fail because mankind is imperfect.”

Mankind will not fail because we have the ability to think beyond any creature known to exist. Once mankind can toss off the shackles religion has placed upon it, we will prosper beyond anything comprehensible to us now, because free thought will become our greatest asset.

Ken Weaver

10:04 PM, August 11, 2007  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Ken, you can't win a battle of wits with an unarmed man. These people don't care about the truth. Most of them are lost in their own self hatred and displacing that hatred onto people that remind them of what they don't like about themselves.

I say let them talk about how gays are ruining everything. Let them follow the hate instead of what Christ wants. They are leading themselves to the path of damnation, and they thumb their noses at anyone that questions their logic. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him think.

4:38 AM, August 12, 2007  
Blogger Tyler Dawbin said...

Ken, I wonder what it is that makes you so hostile towards faith, yet you keep coming here to engage in the discussion, and you have said many times that you are open to hear.

My prayer is that the Holy Spirit is working in you to reveal to you those things you don't yet know, because your eyes have not been opened yet.

God's riches are glorious...and free to all who will call on Christ for forgiveness.

11:57 AM, August 12, 2007  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

“Ken, I wonder what it is that makes you so hostile towards faith, yet you keep coming here to engage in the discussion, and you have said many times that you are open to hear.”

My apologies to Tyler and everyone. I do sometimes get too hostile to religion. I should be more open minded to people of faith but sometimes it’s frustrating to talk to people whose religious views overshadow their own ability to think. It’s also frustrating when I attempt to make points and people respond by saying “god loves you” or “you’ll be forgiven if only you’ll ask.” Sometimes I think if I tell someone I have no wish to partake in god’s riches they’ll get the hint to stop trying to convert me. But more times then not it falls on deaf ears.

“God's riches are glorious...and free to all who will call on Christ for forgiveness.”

I must know; exactly how did I hurt Christ? Why should I ask forgiveness from him since he was dead nearly 200 years before I was born? There is no possible way my actions could have spiraled back in time to affect him. If I cause a person pain, I won’t ask god or Jesus for forgiveness, but I will ask for forgiveness from the person I hurt. It is he who must forgive my transgression.

Ken Weaver

2:07 PM, August 12, 2007  
Blogger Tyler Dawbin said...

I must know; exactly how did I hurt Christ? Why should I ask forgiveness from him since he was dead nearly 200 years before I was born?

Ken, I had no idea you were that old.

10:07 AM, August 14, 2007  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

lol Sorry, I mean 2000 years old.

5:49 PM, August 14, 2007  
Blogger Tyler Dawbin said...

Ahh, now that makes more sense. I was just about to bow to your wisdom when I read the initial comment.

Ken, if Christ is God (and He is), then any wrong you have done against God was paid for by Jesus Christ on the cross, and it is for that reason that we seek His forgiveness (God's) and accept His payment (Christ's).

Of course, the discussion means nothing without a trinitarian view of God, wherein God is the Father, Christ is the Son, and the Holy Spirit is the guide and comforter.

It's like an egg...all three parts are the egg, but there is a distinct yolk, white, and shell. Without any of those you would have an incomplete egg, but no single part is the whole.

8:33 AM, August 15, 2007  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hey Tyler, I’ve always wondered about this so maybe you can help me. You said that Jesus is god, yet Jesus prays to who he calls his father, how can this be?

Matthew 26:39

“And he went a little farther, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.”


He says he’ll do whatever his father (god I’m assuming) wishes. How can they be one and the same? Is Jesus praying to someone other than god? Is he praying for show? There are other references in the bible where Jesus is praying to god. Please explain for me.

Ken Weaver

5:02 PM, August 15, 2007  
Blogger Tyler Dawbin said...

Ken, you've touched on something that theologians struggle to explain without coming back to the element of faith, and inspired wisdom from the Holy Spirit.

The only explanation that I have to offer is that I believe in the trinity, and that God exists as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, three eternally existent beings that are both equal and distinct at the same time.

I can't explain this any better than I can explain how God turned His back on Jesus when Jesus bore the sins of the world on the cross.

All that I know is that Jesus did come as the messiah, that He was there from the beginning, that He and the Father are one, together with the Holy Spirit. I know that Jesus paid the price I couldn't pay so that I can get the reward that only He deserves. I know that I have sinned against heaven, and that I have sought - and continue to seek - forgiveness for my wrongs. I know that I am saved because I have placed my faith in Jesus Christ as my savior and I choose to follow after Him. I know that one day, I will stand face to face with God and I will have to give an answer for how I've lived my life. I know that Jesus has interceded on my behalf, so that I can be clothed with His righteousness. I do not need to fully understand God, because if I as a simple human being could fully understand God, then He wouldn't be a God worth trying to understand.

I know that you have lots of questions that trip you up, and keep you from placing your faith in Jesus Christ, just as I did for many years, and I can only try to answer your questions and tell you that they are good questions if you are really trying to understand God better than you do now.

Do you know how much God loves you, Ken Weaver? Do you know that He cares about you so much that He sent His one and only Son to redeem you? Do you know that you are on His mind, and that He thinks about you every day? Do you know that He wants you to spend forever with Him in heaven? Do you know that if you seek after Him with an honest heart, He will make Himself known to you? Do you know that the foolishness of God is greater than all of the wisdom of mankind?

Do you know Jesus, Ken? Do you know that He is the King of Kings, and Lord of Lords? Do you know that I have prayed that God will open the eyes of your heart so that you will see him?

Do you know, Ken?

10:02 AM, August 16, 2007  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

“I do not need to fully understand God, because if I as a simple human being could fully understand God, then He wouldn't be a God worth trying to understand.”

I could agree with that as long as I could comprehend not his greatness but his love. And sorry, but I can’t comprehend Jesus as a sign of god’s love for humanity.

“Do you know that if you seek after Him with an honest heart, He will make Himself known to you?”

I did!! And there was no answer from a god or Christian, only an atheistic Grandfather.

“Do you know that I have prayed that God will open the eyes of your heart so that you will see him?”

I didn’t, and while I appreciate the thought I would ask you not to waste your time. My wife prays for me too and it hasn’t helped me to appreciate a faith.

Ken Weaver

1:29 PM, August 16, 2007  
Blogger Tyler Dawbin said...

What is it about Jesus as a symbol of God's love for humanity that is hard to understand?

I think it's easier to comprehend than that sentence I just wrote ;-) !

7:21 PM, August 16, 2007  
Blogger Tyler Dawbin said...

By the way, what did your atheistic grandfather say?

7:22 PM, August 16, 2007  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

“What is it about Jesus as a symbol of God's love for humanity that is hard to understand?”

If god is so powerful and loving, why didn’t he just forgive our sins without having to watch his son (or himself) endure the pain of not only the cross, but also the pain for bearing god’s punishment in a physical manner? Why couldn’t this all powerful being just tell a prophet that he’ll forgive us if all we do is sincerely ask for that forgiveness? Surely this act of greatness wouldn’t have been beyond his power?

“By the way, what did your atheistic grandfather say?”

It wasn’t so much what he said but what he did. If you would like to read the whole story you can. Go to Scia’s past postings in February. Then go to the comments section of the one labeled “House of Representatives Set to Vote on “Hate Crimes” Giving Homosexuals Special Rights.” On March 2nd I give my explanation for my distrust in religion and the existence of god.

Ken Weaver

10:58 PM, August 16, 2007  
Blogger Tyler Dawbin said...

If God had only forgiven our sins, and not sent Jesus, we wouldn't know the way...and we would go right back to our lives of sin.

I read your story. I am sorry to hear how the children in the Mormon church treated you. Personally, I don't believe that Mormons are Christians, because they make Jesus and Satan out to be brothers, both as children of a physical God that had intercourse with a physical goddess, and they had numerous little babies of which you are one - and by the way, if you want to be a God, just be a really good Mormon, but don't tell that to the angel Moroni, who was stuck with just being an angel...but I digress.

A religion isn't defined by it's membership, as I already said before. If it was, all religions would be evil. The mistake that you have made, in your grown-up, rational thinking, is to say that a religion is not worth persuing because all the people that follow it are imperfect. Just there you have touched on why the world absolutely, positively needs a savior! We are all imperfect, Ken.

As for your agnostic/atheistic grandfather, I'm glad he stuck up for you...but by him doing to the priest what the children had done to you, he certainly wasn't showing them the most excellent way, was he? Couldn't he have just made the threat without committing the crime?

Your story begs the question, Ken.

5:17 AM, August 17, 2007  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

“If God had only forgiven our sins, and not sent Jesus, we wouldn't know the way...and we would go right back to our lives of sin.”

You mean we haven’t?

“A religion isn't defined by it's membership, as I already said before.”

So how is a religion defined? How do we measure a religion’s truthfulness?

“...but by him doing to the priest what the children had done to you, he certainly wasn't showing them the most excellent way, was he? Couldn't he have just made the threat without committing the crime?”

He was enraged just as I would be if someone was hurting my child. Just as I hope you would be if someone were hurting you daughter. My Grandfather wasn’t trying to show the other kids anything; he was showing me how to deal with people whose inaction can be detrimental to a person’s well being. And I’m sure he enjoyed watching the Bishop’s eyes when he grabbed him. I could only beam because no adult had ever stood up for me like that before.

“Your story begs the question, Ken.”

I think I may have missed something; what question?

Ken Weaver

5:38 PM, August 17, 2007  
Blogger Tyler Dawbin said...

Kids physically assaulted you, which was horrible.

To prove the point that it was wrong, your grandfather physically assaulted the priest.

I know you are glad that your grandfather stood up for you Ken, and I don't want to make a big issue of it, but do you think he could have made the threats without choking the priest?

I'll answer the question about religion in the next blog segment...we seem to have a discussion on three threads right now.

8:48 PM, August 18, 2007  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

“I know you are glad that your grandfather stood up for you Ken, and I don't want to make a big issue of it, but do you think he could have made the threats without choking the priest?”

Yes I’m sure he could have been very nice and asked this bishop to make sure that the other kids didn’t treat me poorly. But I doubt it would have had the same effect on that bishop. The bishop had the fear of an irate grandfather who knew where he lived and knew how to fight. Without that fear, I doubt he would have been so thorough in ensuring that his kids and the others in the church would leave me alone. I had tried asking the bishop myself for some help, but it fell on deaf ears, my grandfather didn’t want this man’s complacency to endanger me any longer. The physical assault punctuated what could have been a friendly conversation. But to be honest I am only giving you my explanation as seen through the eyes of a young screwed up boy. My grandfather is no longer alive so he can’t tell me what was going through his mind at the time. He may have even felt bad about it later but I know nothing of it.

Ken Weaver

7:58 AM, August 19, 2007  

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